Chai and Charmcraft by Lynn Strong

Your hosts return to Tel-Bastet, the city of cats, in Lynn Strong’s Middle-Eastern-inspired cozy fantasy novel Chai and Charmcraft. They talk about romance focused character exploration, cat-based worlds, and cozy conflict.

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Thanks to the following musicians for the use of their songs:

- Amarià for the use of “Sérénade à Notre Dame de Paris”
- Josh Woodward for the use of “Electric Sunrise”

Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 4.0 License

Transcript

Lilly 0:03

Hello and welcome to Fiction Fans, a podcast where we read books and other words too. I'm Lily,

Sara 0:09

And I'm Sarah, and today we'll be discussing Chai and Charm Craft by Lynn Strong.

Lilly 0:15

but first, our quick five minute introduction, starting with something great that happened recently.

Sara 0:21

Someone reached out to me on Instagram to say how much they had enjoyed participating as a reviewer in some of the escapist book tour tours and how sad they were. That escapist was no longer around, and it was a really sweet message, and it definitely made my day.

Lilly 0:42

that's wonderful.

Sara 0:44

Yeah, it was, it was amazing. It was, yeah. So it was great.

Lilly 0:48

Yeah. What a, what a like a beautiful human connection.

Sara 0:52

Yeah, and it was a long message too, like long and thoughtful. It wasn't just, Hey, I liked your tours. Thanks, bye.

Lilly 1:00

Wow. Well, I didn't know we were getting serious this, this week. Mine was, I found a tasty hot sauce.

Sara 1:09

Also good.

Lilly 1:10

Yeah. The like, cute local. I don't, it's not a grocery store, green grocer whatever you would call it. Shout out Dwayne's Garden Patch. Started carrying some local hot sauces, so of course we had to try them.

Sara 1:25

Obviously,

Lilly 1:26

And one of them was like habanero garlic, I think it's not too hot, but when you pour it out of the bottle, it is like it's garlic. It is macerated garlic. It is not like slightly garlic tinted Tabasco or something.

Sara 1:41

that sounds amazing.

Lilly 1:43

delicious.

Sara 1:45

I want to try some next time I visit you.

Lilly 1:47

Absolutely. I think it might become a staple in the house because holy shit.

Sara 1:52

Sounds like it deserves to

Lilly 1:54

Yeah. Groceries. That's what I get excited about.

Sara 1:58

Signs. You're an adult.

Lilly 2:00

I know. What are you drinking today?

Sara 2:02

There's only one answer, one possible answer to this and it's chai.

Lilly 2:06

Yes. I suspect you actually made yours out of tea leaves though.

Sara 2:11

I did make mine out of tea Leaves. Yes.

Lilly 2:13

I am drinking an oat milk chai latte made with the Oregon chai. Like concentrate in a box.

Sara 2:21

Still counts.

Lilly 2:22

I mean, I like it.

Sara 2:24

I suspect that the chai that's drunk in this book is better than what either of us are drinking, but

Lilly 2:33

Well, Asheron, one of the main characters makes his own like spice mix for it, right?

Sara 2:39

yeah.

Lilly 2:40

Yeah. I wanna try that, but. Not today. Today I'm drinking it out of a box. It's good though. Very sweet. But I like that. So it's okay. Have you read anything not podcast related recently?

Sara 2:54

I think for the first time this year, I have an answer to that question. Maybe it's not the first time this year, but I have spent much of this year not having an answer. And yes, I started reading Grumpy Pucking or. By Deborah somebody which is a book that was recommended to us by Tony from Romance Read Along. And the premise is that orcs have come to earth to pillage and grab women to marry, but they're not allowed to pillage. They have to get actual jobs. So they get a job as a hockey team and. One of them falls in love with a reconstructive dentist, and the premise much funnier than the actual book, I'm afraid.

Lilly 3:44

It sounds like it's setting itself up to be like silly and lighthearted, but from what you've been saying, it takes itself a little bit more seriously than that, which is too bad.

Sara 3:55

I was really hoping that it was something that was going to. Be very silly. Like, I mean, have a, have a good romance story sure. But be very silly and not take itself seriously. But unfortunately it is taking the premise kind of seriously and not in a way that works for me necessarily. Also the orcs and the narration. I mean, it's first person, but. Anytime there is mention of, or Dick, it's called their hand ax, and I just can't, like the first time, okay, fine, but every time I, I can't do it.

Lilly 4:33

See if the overall tone of the book was silly, then I feel like that would be fine.

Sara 4:38

Yes, yes,

Lilly 4:41

But yeah, when you're going that poetic with. Euphemisms for genitals,

Sara 4:48

Yeah, it's also Insta Love, like faded mate, Insta Love which is not my thing. And I,

Lilly 4:57

are always a hard sell for me too. Yeah.

Sara 4:59

I, so I don't mind soulmates, like, I don't mind. Faded mates or soulmates or whatever. It's just the, the Insta love aspect of it. Like if, if they struggle with it, that's fine. But if they're instantly head over heels for each other, then I'm like, but like the whole point is seeing them get together

Lilly 5:21

Yeah. Yeah.

Sara 5:22

and there's no struggle here.

Lilly 5:24

It's interesting you say that. The whole point is watching them get together. I'm jumping like four bullet points down into our list because it's relevant, but chi and charm craft is. A love story. It's not a capital R romance because our two love interests hook up at the very beginning and then the book is kind of dealing with the aftermath and implications of that, which I personally love. that is a story angle that I think is so interesting, like watching two people trying to like figure, figure it out together.

Sara 6:02

Well, okay, so, and I will contrast this with grumpy Pucking ORC because yes, they sleep together immediately and yes, they are kind of in love immediately, but there is still struggle there. It's,

Lilly 6:14

Yeah,

Sara 6:15

it's not they, they do have to overcome obstacles and they, they aren't actually together.

Lilly 6:22

That's true. It, they, they hook up at the beginning, but they're not like boyfriends from page one.

Sara 6:27

Yeah. So I, I do think that it's different.

Lilly 6:31

Absolutely. I just, that was such a relevant comment to make about like the structure of,

Sara 6:36

Yeah.

Lilly 6:37

love stories. Right.

Sara 6:38

Yeah. But Chi and Charm Craft Yes. Is a delightful book. We have actually read, work by this author Lynn Strong before cha and Cattails, which was a collection of short stories.

Lilly 6:53

I only remembered the nonverbal kitten, Priya. That was, we read it like a year ago. I think

Sara 7:00

We read it a while ago. And also we read so many books that it is hard to, to keep details straight.

Lilly 7:06

there were definitely things, moments in this book where I thought. Little, little dejavu familiar.

Sara 7:15

Well, and like we meet a lot of the same characters in Chi and Cattails. Like we see Farage who is the Prince, one of the main characters in this novel. We see him meet his archivist, who is also mentioned in this book. For the first time in Chi and Cattails we even see Asheron, who is the other main character. And we see some of the secondary characters too. So there's a lot that is familiar about the world and the setting and the characters.

Lilly 7:47

Yeah, I think I mostly went into this novel having a good sense of setting,

Sara 7:53

Mm-hmm.

Lilly 7:53

which. Considering how fun the setting is, I don't think you need that background at at all. I

Sara 8:01

No. No.

Lilly 8:02

explains everything and sets it up for you, but knowing what to expect, I think I was just already 100% on board before I even opened up page one.

Sara 8:12

Yeah, I mean, you, you definitely don't need to have read Chi and Cattails to enjoy this book. Strong is a fantastic author and does a great job of introducing you to the characters. But it is fun to know the setting beforehand.

Lilly 8:27

I, I think it just made me like it pre hyped me for it. Right.

Sara 8:31

yes.

Lilly 8:32

I knew the tone that I was going to be getting. And I sure did get it. This book was so. Cozy. And I know that's literally just what it says on the front. What is, what does it say on the front? A magical Middle Eastern cozy fantasy. That's what it is.

Sara 8:48

Yes. No false advertising there.

Lilly 8:52

Just so absolutely. I'm gonna like, comfortable. I don't know. It's nice. And even when there is conflict,'cause there is conflict in this book, this isn't like so cozy that. You glaze over and go. There's nothing happening, but it is just absolutely

Sara 9:12

I would

Lilly 9:12

and comforting while you read

Sara 9:13

yeah, I would say the conflict is all rooted in care.

Lilly 9:17

Yeah.

Sara 9:18

Like because the characters care about each other, but. Have different, you know, they have their, their individual worries and concerns. That's where the conflict comes in for the most part. So it does still feel comforting.

Lilly 9:34

Yeah, I think that's the perfect way to describe it. And there is like acknowledgement of danger. The main character, Farage is a prince, and people are worried about him getting kidnapped. So it's not like in this world, nothing bad ever happens. We just know that that's not gonna happen in this story

Sara 9:55

Yes

Lilly 9:56

first of all, oh, what is his name? Starts with a K.

Sara 10:01

Camille,

Lilly 10:02

Yeah. First of all, Camille would never let that happen. He is the cat folk bodyguard of the prince and absolutely wonderful. And yeah.

Sara 10:13

he's, he's great. Yeah. I like'em a lot. This is the first book in a series. But it, I think it absolutely can be read as a standalone.

Lilly 10:24

I was shocked when you put that in the notes. Maybe shocked is the wrong word. Because I did want more, but I did not feel like this left me hanging or concerned in any way. Like I, it felt very well wrapped up and just how I felt at the end of Chi and Cattails where I was like, this world is fun. These stories are so. Warm and soft, just like a cat's belly. I need more of it.

Sara 10:55

the impression that I get from reading the description of the next book, which is not out yet, and is I think Strong's website says tentatively follow 2026, but Big Shrug because the world

Lilly 11:10

That's fair. Is this book out already? It says available for pre-order on her website.

Sara 11:15

release date May 1st.

Lilly 11:16

Oh, it just came?

Sara 11:17

So it,

Lilly 11:18

it might be out.

Sara 11:19

it probably will be out by the time this episode comes out. But, the next book, eff and, and Kittens sounds like it is a continuation of like the story, but not in a, not a sequel. Does that make sense? Or a sequel, but not a continuation. One of the two.

Lilly 11:39

Yeah, that, that definitely makes sense because we've, we've kind of gotten. character growth over the, the arc of this book, and so he doesn't need the spotlight again, or is, is kind of how I would approach it

Sara 11:52

I mean, I think that he and ASRA are the main characters in book two still. Yeah.

Lilly 11:58

well then I don't understand how it's not a continuation if it's about the same guys.

Sara 12:04

what I'm, what I'm trying to say is like this, the story that we get in chi and charm craft does feel self-contained. So it's not like a, a sequel where the events are immediately related to what happens in in book one. Like there's no cliffhanger that needs to be resolved in book two.

Lilly 12:26

Yes, I agree with that. So it, it starts, the book starts with Asheron's, not, not his perspective, but the, the chapters kind of switch back and forth between who the focus is on because for all that, this is a love story. Asheron and Farage are separated for quite a bit of it. There's kind of some star crossed lovers vibes.

Sara 12:46

A little bit. Yeah.

Lilly 12:48

In the most delightful way, but as the book progresses, I feel like Farage definitely is the main character of this story.

Sara 12:57

I think he's the one who goes through the most character growth for sure.

Lilly 13:02

Well, and, for all that this is. A love story and what happens when Farage and Asheron, I'm gonna keep saying hookup, which feels too dismissive, but it's not wrong. Really, this story is about Farage kind of being confronted by his privilege.

Sara 13:20

Yes. Yes. I think he, he realizes that he. Can do a lot of things because he is the younger brother of the God emperor. He is this prophet prince, and he realizes that if it, that it's not fair that that his position allows him to do things that other people can't, when there's no reason that other people shouldn't be able to.

Lilly 13:45

Okay. More ways in which. This book was just the most delightful thing to read in the world. There was so much non-sexual physical affection.

Sara 13:58

Yes, it was really lovely to see just the, like the physical affection between Nara, who's Farage's archivist and Farage. Nara, who's Ace, which I love. Always love ace representation. But they like, they touch all the time, which is great. Normalize touching your friends in, in consensual non-sexual ways.

Lilly 14:21

Yes. But it's not just ace characters who get to be nonsexual, right? Han is his main advisor, Chamberlain. Thank you. And well, I have a whole lot to say about Han in the spoiler section.

Sara 14:38

we both do.

Lilly 14:39

The only thing I will say up top is that he also gets to express physical affection for Farage. And that's just really nice. Also, all of the cats, all of the cats there shouldn't surprise anyone. Actually there's not cats in the title of this book. There's a lot of cats in this book.

Sara 14:59

There's a cat on the cover.

Lilly 15:01

There you go. And that is not. just to, just to get you drawn in,

Sara 15:07

Yeah, there

Lilly 15:07

are indeed central

Sara 15:08

there are a lot of cats in this book.

Lilly 15:11

and so there's quite a bit of affection with the cat folk as well that basically never reads a sexual which I wonder if strong will ever get into if, are there romantic relationships between humans and cat folk?

Sara 15:24

I don't know.

Lilly 15:25

not addressed at all. Anyway, this is a very cat centric world they live in. Baste, I think is the name of the city.

Sara 15:35

Tell. Tell Besta.

Lilly 15:37

Tell Baste, thank you. Because Baste is the goddess.

Sara 15:40

Yes.

Lilly 15:40

Yes. This is a city all about cats. There are regular cats running around, although they can kind of communicate telepathically. There are spirit cat familiars also running around. And then there are cat folk who are, I'm gonna say kind of if you're familiar with Dungeons and Dragons, like Tobay, that kind of classic wear cat concept. But they can also shapeshift into regular cats.

Sara 16:08

At Will.

Lilly 16:09

At Will. Yes.

Sara 16:10

Yes.

Lilly 16:11

And they are just, it's not the point of the book that let's talk about all of these cats. They're just there because that's the city. And you'll be reading and suddenly it'll the cat, there will be a cat jumping up on a counter and knocking something off and it's like, yeah, that is what life with cats is like.

Sara 16:31

It does, it does feel like strong nose her cats.

Lilly 16:34

For real that when, when I was reading this book, I would occasionally just stop and read some cat shenanigans sentences out loud to my husband, and he was delighted by how accurate it is.

Sara 16:47

There's a, another book in said in this world, Haroun and the Study of Mischief which has dogs, and I haven't read it yet, but I'm really intrigued to see if the. The dog behavior is as accurate as the cat behavior, although granted pugs are not necessarily always like other dogs. So my judgment may be slightly off.

Lilly 17:11

That's the thing, right? Domesticated dogs have a lot more, at least physical variety than domesticated cats.

Sara 17:19

Yeah,

Lilly 17:19

I think the cats in this book would protest at being called domestic,

Sara 17:24

I think they probably would protest quite a lot and quite vocally.

Lilly 17:27

but that's the physical type of cat. Like no one's shape-shifting into a tiger, you know?

Sara 17:32

right. Although Camille is described as being very links like,

Lilly 17:38

Yeah. But that's just like his general fluffy shape. Right. He's got the, the pointy ears. And

Sara 17:45

yeah. I mean, I, I think that there

Lilly 17:48

like a cat though.

Sara 17:49

is, he is still a cat. Yes.

Lilly 17:51

a big lynx. Yeah. Size wise.

Sara 17:55

Yes. I, I think size wise, he's still a cat, but maybe on the bigger side.

Lilly 17:59

Yeah. Well, sure there's some variety, but it's not the same as like a chihuahua to a doberman, you

Sara 18:04

Right, right.

Lilly 18:06

There's also a hint of snake people. I wasn't sure if that was like a tiny glimpse into this wider world or if it just happened to be that the snake, god priestess has like picked up snake traits.

Sara 18:20

It was very intriguing. I don't know the answer to that.

Lilly 18:23

It all of that is to say that the world is very fun

Sara 18:27

Yeah, it's well built out and I like, I still have questions because strong is not detailing every aspect of the world that doesn't relate to the story. But it's very well, well built.

Lilly 18:41

I have more comments about the world building and how perfect the balance was specifically for my tastes, but I think it's spoilery, at least the examples I want to give are definitely spoilers.

Sara 18:56

We can, we can save that for the spoiler section. Before we move on to the spoiler section though, I do want to talk about one more thing non, one more nons spoilery thing that I really appreciated about this book, which was all of the body positivity because there's a whole heck of a lot of it and it's really wonderful.

Lilly 19:16

And unlike the cats, it wasn't just taken for granted. Right, because I feel like there's some, some things that a, a book will go, we're just gonna normalize this. And you're like, great. I love reading about a world where this is normal. Cats running around, like people awesome. But in this book it was, I mean the, the first example going, I am going to show this man how much I love him or not love'cause it's not insta love how into him I am.

Sara 19:48

Yes.

Lilly 19:49

Because he's clearly very insecure about his body, and so it, it's just, I wanna say aggressive, but I feel like that gives the wrong tone,

Sara 19:59

Yeah. I mean, it's, it's

Lilly 20:00

purposeful.

Sara 20:01

very purposeful. I think that's a good, a good word for it. And I also really appreciated. Strong, the, the narration makes a comment, or maybe one of the characters does. I, I can't remember about how silly it is that Farage's brothers are never shamed for having lots of affairs and, and lots of children, whereas he's constantly being shamed by his advisors for eating sweets. And how ridiculous like that difference in treatment is.

Lilly 20:35

Yeah. It's not. This world is just accepting of all shapes. It's we're, we're gonna make a point of making this, this guy feel better about himself, which is because people don't make him feel good about himself on a regular day.

Sara 20:49

Yeah, and it's not just Farage like the the priests of uja.

Lilly 20:54

That sounds right.

Sara 20:55

I can't remember if UJA or Uala, but I think it's uja. Which is so they are dedicated to feeding everyone and they are also bigger, they're, they're described as round often in the text. And Asan also wants to make sure that. They feel good about themselves too, and that the comments that they get from the people around them are appreciative of them rather than dismissive of their size.

Lilly 21:25

Which is again, a ridiculous double standard, right? Because they're all about making sure people are well fed and they get looked down on for that because they're not like the high wheeling political there. There's a, there's different I'm gonna say religious factions. There's a lot of different gods being worshiped.

Sara 21:42

Yeah.

Lilly 21:42

And the, the priest of u Paja really are. Near the bottom of the pecking order because it is just, it's such a domestic and

Sara 21:52

Feeding people.

Lilly 21:54

thing to do.

Sara 21:55

Yeah, feeding people is plebeian.

Lilly 21:57

Yeah. But as asheron, I don't think he points it out in as so many words, but it's really important. So kind of that appreciation for the domestic.

Sara 22:09

Yes.

Lilly 22:11

All over this book. There's so much like we talked about physical affection, but there's also affection through making sure people are well fed on the institutional level, but also at a personal level. A lot of food, which there are some recipes for in the back of the book, which strong also did in giant cattails, which I really appreciated.

Sara 22:31

Me too.

Lilly 22:32

I still haven't had the chance to try any of them though.

Sara 22:35

I know. I, I really, I really need to get on that. I'm pretty sure that there was a recipe in the, in chai and cattails for chai as well.

Lilly 22:44

I think it was, yeah, Asheron's mix, right? If we were real podcasters, we would've made his recipe for this.

Sara 22:51

It's true. Instead, we're just fake podcasters. Drinking, drinking our own chi.

Lilly 22:58

but you know, I don't think Asheron would hold it against us.

Sara 23:01

I don't think so.

Lilly 23:02

He is too much of an understanding, babe.

Sara 23:05

He, he really is.

Lilly 23:06

That is, that is the perfect way to describe him.

Sara 23:10

yes, he, he is the epitome of understanding babe.

Lilly 23:15

Well, before we get into our spoiler conversation, who should read this book?

Sara 23:20

You should read this book if, well, A, you like cats. B, you like coziness c you want a fantasy that's not just your standard, like, European Medieval fantasy or pseudo fantasy. But also if you want something that is going to make you feel good as you read it. Then you should read this book.

Lilly 23:42

This book is the epitome of the warm and fuzzies from every angle, the romantic relationship, the cats literal, warm, and fuzzies. The food, the, the tenderness, just everything about it. I enjoyed reading this book so much.

Sara 23:59

it's, it's fantastic. This episode of Fiction Fans is brought to you by sost.

Lilly 24:08

That's our zine. Each issue has a different theme that celebrates genre and genre blending in a new way.

Sara 24:15

PDF and EPUB Versions can be purchased on our website and Patreon, supporters of all levels get free digital copies.

Lilly 24:22

You can find all of the issues and more at patreon.com/fiction fans pod. Thank you for your support.

Sara 24:28

The remainder of this episode contains spoilers.

Lilly 24:35

we talked a lot about the main characters upfront, which I think it's fair to say Farage and Asheron are the main characters. There are. There are Love our lover boys,

Sara 24:44

Yes.

Lilly 24:45

but there are so many wonderful secondary characters.

Sara 24:50

There, there are a lot of fantastic secondary characters. I was partial to Nara, who's the archivist, the ace archivist. Partially because I really needed her presence in the story to balance out Han the Chamberlain.

Lilly 25:05

Yes. Their approach to caring about Farage, their different approaches are so opposite each other that you really need both of them. I did, she did get on my nerves a little bit when she was pushing back against Han'cause she just had no tact at all. I just wanted to go. You're smarter than this though.

Sara 25:27

I mean, I, I get that. I kind of enjoyed that she had no tact because I think it, was emblematic of her character. Like I, I thought it went with the character that had been established in Cheyenne Cattails and the short story and with what we knew of her. So it didn't, it didn't bother me.

Lilly 25:47

I mean, it wasn't out of character. It was just frustrating.

Sara 25:52

She, she would have had an easier time of things if she had a little bit more tact. Yes.

Lilly 25:57

Yeah, and I'm talking like she threatens to overthrow the entire government, which I mean, taken in the context of a cozy love story, you're like, ah, that's just proof of how much she cares about Farage, but like. Obviously that's gonna get Han's hackles up, dude.

Sara 26:19

Arfons hackles was already, we're already up

Lilly 26:21

Yeah,

Sara 26:23

Like she didn't need to do anything there. She couldn't get his hackles more up.

Lilly 26:28

she is not into deescalation at all. She is an escalation person.

Sara 26:34

she is, she is firmly an escalation person. I did also come to like Han by the end of the book, but for a lot of it, I just wanted to shake him because. So we've talked a little bit about some of the conflict coming in this book, coming from a place of care. And I think most of the conflict comes from Han who cares deeply about Farage. But when Farage comes back with a cat familiar, he is very worried that Farage has been unled and enchanted by a nefarious enchanter and is. Essentially like being mind controlled. and so he's like, we gotta, we gotta get rid of disenchantment. We have to kill this cat. We have to do everything we can to make sure that Farage is safe again. And again, I, I get that it was coming from a place of care, but also it's a cat.

Lilly 27:33

It is a cat and like, like is pointed out. It's very condescending to Farage like.

Sara 27:40

Yeah

Lilly 27:41

Eron was definitely the antagonist, which I think is a very interesting position. Like this book is about far Raj trying to kind of stand up for himself for the very first time, and. fascinating that I felt so bad for like a, a prince of a country. But clearly, he has always lived within like expectations for him no one ever puts it in those terms for Han, which is like, which is interesting. It's like, let the guy have one thing,

Sara 28:14

Yeah.

Lilly 28:14

the guy being Farage.

Sara 28:15

Yeah.

Lilly 28:16

But yeah, to have the antagonist be someone who genuinely wants the best for your main character and truly want to take care of him, just be like, too narrow, not

Sara 28:27

too. Too rigid. Too rigid in his thinking. It was a great choice for this book.

Lilly 28:33

it worked so well. It definitely took time for him to grow on me. Because he's introduced by going, let's kill this cat. Which is, I mean, the fact that Strong managed to bring me back around on that character is pretty incredible.

Sara 28:50

It is pretty impressive. Yeah.

Lilly 28:52

Yeah. But you do see how much he genuinely cares about Farra and he's just going about it. Not in the wrong way, but in a way I certainly disagree with Nara. Disagree with.

Sara 29:03

yes. We also have some other side characters, like the aunties, I did think were fun. Not always in a, in a, in good way,

Lilly 29:15

They also bothered me quite a bit at the beginning. They're like the gossipy, manipulative, nosy like neighborhood. Aunties is, is really, it's what they are. They're the aunties. Not actually a familial relation to anyone in this book, is what I'm saying though. Like

Sara 29:32

Yes.

Lilly 29:33

they're nosy neighbors is what they are, and I find nosiness and meddling very grading in general, which might have gotten my hackles raised extra for them.

Sara 29:43

Mm.

Lilly 29:45

But they also redeemed themselves when Farage disguises himself to walk amongst the people and ask them their opinion on cats being allowed into the palace. And the aunties were like, oh, we'll start a revolution to save this one cat.

Sara 30:00

Yeah, we will, we will be ride or die for this one cat. We don't the the god emperor's brother. He's okay. We like him well enough, but his cat now.

Lilly 30:09

Yeah. Well, they didn't even know it was the God emperor's brother who had the cat. They thought it was just some random accountant at the time.

Sara 30:16

No, because he, they think that he is a random accountant. But he, when he talks about heresy, I think he does mention that it's the god emperor's brother who has the cat.

Lilly 30:28

Did he? I thought, I thought it was himself. I, because I have a comment that I was like, well, it's gonna be really obvious when it's the god emperor's brother who shows up with a cat that that's who was the one doing this. Maybe I just totally missed that.

Sara 30:42

Because they, they start talking about Farage and how they don't want stuff. I don't know if I can find the section in the book.

Lilly 30:52

Okay. Oh, so this is Asheron's mental. Monologue during this, this scene. I can't look guilty. I can't admit anything. None of them should think. I feel responsible for Sammy, the accountant's heresy accusations.

Sara 31:07

Yeah, but there's, what chapter was that?

Lilly 31:10

13.

Sara 31:11

13.

Lilly 31:13

I think he says that the Prince was going to help him, like was going to change things, but they, but it's definitely, they think it's Sammy who is Farage's. Persona in this scene so that he can talk to the common folk. Where is your little goddess now? Samami?

Sara 31:31

Yeah. Okay. You were, you were right about that, but there was something.

Lilly 31:35

Well, because he shares that the Prince was going to basically create like a new system for tax breaks.

Sara 31:44

Yeah, maybe that's what I'm thinking about.

Lilly 31:47

And they're like, that's nice. Cats are more important.

Sara 31:51

Okay, now I'm just rereading the chapter. Not helpful.

Lilly 31:54

We both just get sucked back into the book. And you know, I know I just said that Nara saying that she would overthrow the government to protect a cat on behalf of Farage bothered me, but that's because she knows Han. And so I like that conversation between the two of them. I feel like she ought to have known better, whereas the odd tees saying it, it's.

Sara 32:19

I mean, that's also just kind of like, just talk, right?

Lilly 32:22

Yeah, NADRA actually had steps in place, which is great and cool, but like, don't, just don't phrase it that way. Come on.

Sara 32:31

Nara had a plan.

Lilly 32:32

Yeah. Asheron was such an interesting character, so he owns a bathhouse. He is also a sex worker sometimes. That's not the only thing he does. He also, he just takes care of people, right?

Sara 32:46

Yeah.

Lilly 32:47

And be that massage therapy or hygiene or, I wanted to come up with a fun euphemism, but that was too much work banging. For all of his worldliness, though he is kind of strangely naive when it comes to the auntie's like gossip and meddling. He's shocked that his marriage and the inheritance of the bathhouse is even a topic of conversation. And that just seemed, I don't know, it seemed surprising for his position in society

Sara 33:17

I mean he, he definitely is naive. About a lot of things. Like I think he lives very much in the moment. For example, he doesn't think about the consequences of giving Farage a cat familiar, which is something that he probably should have thought about before he, before he gave Farage a cat, fa familiar.

Lilly 33:40

Yeah.

Sara 33:41

Which is, it's not a bad thing to live in the moment, but, he, he definitely could stand to think of thing, think things through a little bit more.

Lilly 33:51

Well, and that's, I don't know, that doesn't bother me as much or that didn't stick out to me as much I should say. But like his whole thing is that he is very emotionally intelligent and can tell what kind of affection people need. So like he's good at reading people like that. That's a very important part of his character and his job. But I guess it's, it kind of felt like who little old me when it was turned on him, because he loves, you know, he is part of the gossip community. Like he, he participates, he knows what people say about each other, but then when it's people gossiping about him, he's so like bashful. It felt weird.

Sara 34:31

I can see that I didn't necessarily feel the same way, but.

Lilly 34:34

it wasn't a big problem. It just stuck out to me as like, I,

Sara 34:37

Yeah,

Lilly 34:38

I would not have thought that this, this character would be so surprised by this,

Sara 34:42

I just, I, I don't think that he thought about things like inheritance'cause that's in the future. That's not a, that's not a problem for current Deron.

Lilly 34:51

that yes, but the auntie's gossiping about it, like that shouldn't surprise him. Okay. We talked a little bit about Farage's Cat Familiar, who Asheron helps him summon and kicks off basically all of the conflict of this book because like there was, there was some star Cross lovers. It's a, a prince and a sex worker, which is like such a classic dynamic for a star cross love story, but. The real conflict. I mean, that, that is a complicating factor, but more of the conflict is around his cat being allowed into the palace where cats are not allowed. And Sahar is a spirit. she's a, a little cat who was summoned, but she's pregnant and at some point, quite near the end of this book has kittens. Are those kittens also spirits that have been summoned, or are they regular physical cats? It is never explained. And I need to know,

Sara 35:49

Don't they talk about it a little bit in the, in the book when she first gets summoned?

Lilly 35:53

maybe, but like the summoned cat can be res summoned. Right. That

Sara 35:59

Yes.

Lilly 36:00

an important plot point. I mean, they still experience death if they're harmed, but they, they come back, they can just get re summoned. It was not clear if her kittens were the same way.

Sara 36:14

Yeah, I don't know.

Lilly 36:15

Yeah. Anyway, that, that is the world building that I was like, I so rarely, I'm like, I need more world building because everything else in this novel. Was the absolute perfect level for me. You learn things about how cat folk work, about how magic works, but there's never like, oh yes, and Asheron is a fire M because he has an affinity for fire magic. That is why he is good at making tea and also could do a fireball like it was so much more subtle than that.

Sara 36:48

It is not in your face

Lilly 36:49

No, it's not distracting at all, which I appreciated because this is about like. People's relationships, right, is just the set. And cats. Cats are people. They, they were included in that. So I loved the world and I loved the way we accessed information about it because it, yeah. And that's just who I am as a reader. Give me the characters first and let me learn about the world through them, because. So rarely do we as people sit here and go, ah, yes. And the traffic light is changing colors at the time. It does, because of urban planning committees, you know, and so whenever that shows up in a fantasy novel, it just bothers me. I'm just not a world building person. I mean, it doesn't, I don't hate world building. I just, I need it to be more subtle.

Sara 37:41

You don't want it to hit you on the face, whereas I don't, I don't mind being smacked in the face with world building. But I also very appreciate a story like this where it is subtle, but you get a lot of it.

Lilly 37:52

you get so much of it. Yeah. That's why I wanted to like clarify. It's not that I don't like world building. It's just so much more enjoyable to me when it's this way of doing it.

Sara 38:02

Whereas I think my problem is that when it's subtle like this, you usually don't get enough of it for my taste.

Lilly 38:08

Fair enough.

Sara 38:08

But with this, we, we got a ton of it. I was very happy.

Lilly 38:11

Yes,

Sara 38:12

It's the best of all possible worlds.

Lilly 38:15

so, oh, I never answered what I've been reading lately. I'm eight months pregnant. I have been reading books about childbirth and labor, surprisingly relevant to this novel.

Sara 38:27

There was a lot more pregnancy in it than I was expecting.

Lilly 38:30

I was taken entirely by surprise. So Sahara, the cat is pregnant, has kittens, and then there are two sex priests be'cause there's a bunch of different gods and they're having a big God convention or whatever I guess priest convention. But there's the, I don't remember which the gods are, but it, it basically boils down to male sexuality and female sexuality. I would say those two gods, something like that.

Sara 38:58

something like that.

Lilly 38:59

And the priests of each of those orders, nuke and neer common. Are at a dinner party. They both seem to be on quite good terms with Farage, even though they're always hitting on him and he's always has to, uh, bat down their advances. It seemed more like friendly ribbing than actual pestering.

Sara 39:24

Yes, I think, I think it was friendly. They, I didn't necessarily get the impression that they would stop if he told them to stop.

Lilly 39:33

has clearly told them to stop.

Sara 39:35

But on the other hand not for common does see how stressed he is that evening and is like, okay, I'm not gonna, I'm gonna be good. I'm not gonna. Make any advances audio so that you're not stressed out,

Lilly 39:50

Yeah.

Sara 39:51

which is, I mean, that's friendly.

Lilly 39:53

And because we can see into Farage's head, we know that he doesn't necessarily mind the advances. He just would never take them up on it.

Sara 40:02

Yeah.

Lilly 40:03

He, and actually I think at one point comments that it makes it, he feels like they are actually interested in him and they're not just putting on a show, and he appreciates that sincerity.

Sara 40:14

Yeah

Lilly 40:15

anyway, fun characters, very fun dinner party scene. And then we find out that Anke is also heavily pregnant and is starting her labor during the dinner party. And.

Sara 40:28

ed refuses to go see a doctor because she wants to be at the dinner party.

Lilly 40:32

Well, as I've learned because I know so much about this now, that that's actually quite normal. They say like, don't even bother calling your doctor for like six to eight hours after labor starts. So, she is actually doing things the modern way. I don't know what it was like in the, the medieval Middle East. I don't know what time period this, this was quite long ago. It's fantasy. I don't need to know the time

Sara 40:58

It's fantasy. You don't need to know.

Lilly 41:00

but it was so weird. Maybe not so weird. I, I've been bringing a different reading to on page pregnancies as I am currently experiencing one myself. So it was interesting having like these two different, experiences on the page

Sara 41:19

Yes.

Lilly 41:21

because we also Sahar does give birth later on and Farra experiences it.

Sara 41:27

They have a, they have a link, which means that he in some respects, feels what she feels. I think only, only when big things happen is kind of the impression I get or when she like makes an effort to share what she's feeling. But I would say that giving birth to six kittens is a big thing.

Lilly 41:45

Yeah. Basically what it boils down to is there's kind of mpreg being male pregnancy, well, there's not male pregnancy, there's male childbirth.

Sara 41:55

yeah, I, yeah, I mean, I would, I would quibble with that phrasing a little bit.'cause he's not pregnant. He just experiences some of

Lilly 42:02

He just experiences the physical sensations. I mean, that's damn close of of childbirth though, not the whole

Sara 42:09

yes. That's, that's why I'm quibbling with calling it Reg. But, um. It was, it was an interesting inclusion.

Lilly 42:15

Yeah. And that's also where Han and Nausea kind of. Get over themselves and each other.'cause they're like, oh, we gotta, we gotta support our friend through this very strange experience.

Sara 42:28

I mean, they both do genuinely really care for Farage.

Lilly 42:31

Yeah. And I mean, I was already, I had already warmed up to Eron by then, but that kind of clinches it, right? That like, whatever he might feel about the situation, he still wants to be there for Farage and, and help him however he can.

Sara 42:47

Yeah, and he does eventually come around to to Sahar,

Lilly 42:52

Oh yeah.

Sara 42:53

which I think is important to note.

Lilly 42:55

Yes. All in all, every single character was wonderful. I'm trying to think. Oh, I guess the only characters that are purely villains are the priests of order.

Sara 43:08

Yes.

Lilly 43:09

They're not on the page very much. They're almost comic relief.

Sara 43:13

Yeah, I mean, and I, I wouldn't necessarily call them purely villains. Antagonistic, definitely.

Lilly 43:20

Okay. Yeah. They're, they're the only characters that we don't like see a redemption arc for.

Sara 43:26

yeah, but we do get to see them count a lot of grain or a lot of wheat,

Lilly 43:31

They're character arc is. They get tormented by the priests of uja uja,

Sara 43:38

deja.

Lilly 43:38

Which was very fun. You gotta have someone you can pick on and not feel bad about

Sara 43:43

Yes,

Lilly 43:44

But other than them, like genuinely every single character is well-meaning and kind. It's just like such a nice world. It cozy. It's cozy.

Sara 43:55

it's cozy. It's cozy in the best way.

Lilly 43:58

Yeah. that genre, that description for a genre has had a moment, I think might've been overused for a while, but this feels like the exact thing that I want when I'm looking for just something that's like comforting and there are stakes, but you're pretty confident that the good guys are gonna win.

Sara 44:21

it just, I mean, reading this book feels like getting a warm hug

Lilly 44:26

Yeah.

Sara 44:27

and having a cat purring on your lap.

Lilly 44:31

Oh, there were definitely times while I was reading this book that I had both of my cats like on either side of me, and it was just the most wonderful experience.

Sara 44:42

is, that is the right way to read this book.

Lilly 44:44

is, oh, and a warm cup of chai.

Sara 44:46

Yes.

Lilly 44:48

Like all of those things put together it's just delightful.

Sara 44:52

Yeah. I,

Lilly 44:52

Absolutely recommend it if you're having a bad day or not. You don't have to wait till you're having a bad day to read a book. That's nice,

Sara 45:00

yeah. If, if you just want a nice book.

Lilly 45:03

but it's not toothless, I think is what I'm trying to say. It, it's nice and it's warm and it's cozy, but it's also doing something. I mean, it's, dealing with. Inequity and privilege, you know? so there is, there is more to it than just, it's not a slice of life.

Sara 45:20

it's not surface level.

Lilly 45:22

Yeah. Yeah.

Sara 45:23

Yeah, it's not surface level.

Lilly 45:25

I'm very excited to read more. I guess I should read the dog book. I am curious how if, I guess I'm not gonna be as good of a judge how the characterization of the dogs go.

Sara 45:36

Yeah, and I be, I think there can be more variety or, or differences between dog breed like behaviors than there are between. Cat, obviously individual cats, like they vary a lot, but I think as a whole, cats tend to be more consistent from breed to breed than dogs are. From breed to breed.

Lilly 46:02

don't really have breeds.

Sara 46:03

Yeah. Yeah, exactly. That's, that's what I'm getting at. So, so I don't know, because my experience is all pugs and I'm assuming that the dogs in Haroun and the study of mischief are not pugs. I could be wrong but

Lilly 46:17

think that's a good guess.

Sara 46:18

I think it's a, probably a good guess. I might not necessarily be the best judge of how accurate the, the dog behavior is either, but.

Lilly 46:26

I wonder if that's why cat memes feels so much more popular than dog memes because any cat person is gonna look at a cat meme and go, yeah, that's basically my cat. Whereas with dog people, there's more like.

Sara 46:47

Sub genres.

Lilly 46:48

Yeah. And so it's not a, it could be less relatable, right?

Sara 46:52

Yeah,

Lilly 46:53

More infighting, not exactly infighting, but a pug meme is not necessarily going to appeal to a husky owner, you know?

Sara 47:01

yeah. Yeah.

Lilly 47:02

and I wonder if that accounts for just like the booming popularity of cat. I'm gonna keep saying memes. That's not exactly what I mean, but I think it's the right. Easy catchall word for it.

Sara 47:14

Yeah, it, it could, it could.

Lilly 47:17

Yeah. Anyway, we, before we get onto that philosophical tangent, loved this book. Gotta find some sources for some of these ingredients because I did flip through the recipes and I wanna try them. But they're not ingredients that I'm familiar with, so it would have to be like, it would be a project.

Sara 47:37

Yeah.

Lilly 47:38

I love that they're included though, because there is so much food in these stories, meaning chi and charm, craft and also Cheyenne cattails.

Sara 47:46

Yeah. I, I love the care that strong puts into the appendix.

Lilly 47:52

Yeah.

Sara 47:52

It's not an afterthought. Like there's recipes, there's definitions. Like there's a lot of research that has clearly gone into these books which is fantastic.

Lilly 48:01

Mm-hmm. And I want to like, interact with that. You know, if it feels like, I mean you don't have to, to enjoy the book, but to appreciate all of the work that went into it

Sara 48:11

Yeah.

Lilly 48:12

more than just reading it, you know, I'd like to actually do the, do the thing

Sara 48:16

Yeah,

Lilly 48:17

who doesn't love a good cooking project. So,

Sara 48:19

exactly. Thank you so much for listening to this episode of Fiction Fans.

Lilly 48:27

Come disagree with us. We're on Blue Sky and Instagram at Fiction Fans Pod. You can also email us at Fiction fans pod@gmail.com or leave a comment on YouTube.

Sara 48:37

If you enjoyed the episode, please rate and review on Spotify and Apple Podcasts and follow us wherever your podcasts live.

Lilly 48:44

We also have a Patreon where you can support us and find exclusive episodes and a lot of other nonsense.

Sara 48:50

Thanks again for listening, and may your villains always be defeated. Bye.

Lilly 48:55

It would've been kind of funny if we had said, may your best friends always be defeated.

Sara 49:00

It would've.