Fiction Fans

Author Interview: Saints of Storm and Sorrow by Gabriella Buba

• Episode 205

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Your hosts are joined by Gabriella Buba to talk about Filipino fantasy, not shying away from religious atrocities committed by missionaries, and (extremely satisfying) corruption arcs in Saints of Storm and Sorrow, book one in The Stormbringer Saga (her now-complete duology).


Find more from Gabriella:

https://gabriellabuba.com/ 

https://www.tiktok.com/@gabriella.buba.books 

https://bsky.app/profile/gabriellabuba.bsky.social 

https://www.instagram.com/gabriellabuba/ 


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Thanks to the following musicians for the use of their songs:

- Amarià for the use of “Sérénade à Notre Dame de Paris”
- Josh Woodward for the use of “Electric Sunrise”

Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 4.0 License


Lilly:

Hello and welcome to Fiction Fans, a podcast where we read books and other words too. I'm Lily,

Sara:

And I'm Sarah, and I'm so pleased to welcome Gabriela Buba onto the podcast today to talk about Saints of storm and sorrow.

Gabriela:

Thank you so much for having me.

Lilly:

It's great to to have you here. I'm so excited to talk about this book. But before we jump into that, what's something great that happened recently?

Gabriela:

Great. That happened recently. Saints was, I have a big one actually. Saints was just shortlisted for the Aldis award for world building and speculative fiction,

Sara:

Congratulations. That's fantastic.

Gabriela:

was thrilling. We're up there with, caitlin Zaki for Dreadful and Veronica Roth. I am ecstatic.

Lilly:

Wow.

Sara:

I, I don't think I can top that. Yeah.

Gabriela:

I'm still riding that high. I still have to update like all of my websites and bios and everything, but I'm just like, I have never been shortlisted for anything.

Lilly:

Oh, that's fantastic because the, the second book came out recently in this series. Am I correct?

Gabriela:

Yes, actually I just got back from the portion of my book tour in California. So we did San Diego, long Beach, LA and I'm now home for like one week before I head off to Portland for rose City Comic-Con. And then Armadillo Con

Lilly:

Nice.

Sara:

That is a lot of travel.

Gabriela:

I'm tired.

Lilly:

I bet. Where are you? West Coast.

Gabriela:

I'm in Texas.

Lilly:

Oh, okay. So, not as far as it could be, but still a bit of a trek. Yeah. Sarah, what's something great that happened recently?

Sara:

so my good thing is not quite at that level, but I was walking the dogs a couple of days ago and a neighbor came out and was like, do you want an orchid? My wife came back with a bunch of orchids, so I'm giving them out to the neighbors that I like. So I just got an orchid. That was very sweet.

Lilly:

that's lovely. You talk to your neighbors so much more than I do.

Sara:

Well, it's because I, I walk my dogs.

Lilly:

Hmm.

Sara:

And so and so people, you know, chat about dogs.

Lilly:

My good thing is also animal related. Weirdly enough I found a frog. It, we have a, a little like box in our front yard to keep some extension cords dry when it rains, and apparently a frog has moved in. So

Sara:

Aw.

Lilly:

was a little surprising at the moment, but little cute little guy.

Gabriela:

That's delightful.

Lilly:

Thank you. What is everyone drinking today?

Sara:

I have some black tea.

Lilly:

Lovely.

Gabriela:

Ong with grass jelly.

Sara:

Ooh.

Lilly:

nice.

Gabriela:

It's so good. It's so herbal.

Lilly:

Mm-hmm. I have made my own. I don't know if, if you guys have tried the non-alcoholic versions of wine that you can get now they're pretty good, but so expensive. Like more expensive than shitty wine. So kind of hard to justify. So I have created my own version, which is just pomegranate juice and apple cider vinegar and bubbly water. And it, it kind of works.

Sara:

Does it actually taste like wine?

Lilly:

No, but it kind of like scratches the same itch,

Sara:

Okay. Fair enough.

Lilly:

and it's like nice and cold. It's been hot here, so,

Gabriela:

Oh, that works. I'm very into all of the different iced and fridge teas right now,

Lilly:

Mm.

Gabriela:

like fruit, some kind of tea, some kind of citrus, all in the fridge overnight, and then I'll just drink that until the pitcher's empty.

Lilly:

Perfect. Yeah. Gotta stay hydrated. It's important. And has anyone read anything good lately?

Sara:

I have just been doing podcast reading which for the purpose of this question does not qualify.

Lilly:

Yes, same.

Gabriela:

I've been doing blurb reading, but Black Salt Queen by Samantha Banzel. Amazing. So atmospheric. So if my book is set in like Northern Luz zone fantasy Northern Philippines, hers is very much fantasy al and really spot on.

Lilly:

All right. We'll have to put that on the ever-growing TBR.

Sara:

yes. Do you know when it comes out?

Gabriela:

It came out recently, I

Sara:

Oh, it came. Okay, so it is out.

Gabriela:

it is out like maybe as of this month or maybe as of last month.

Sara:

Okay.

Lilly:

Awesome. Well, now is the time that I confess how embarrassingly long it took me to realize that this book was inspired by the Philippine. It was like 400 plus pages in, it's so embarrassing.

Gabriela:

Wait, I, I, how?

Lilly:

Okay. I grew up in Southern California, so when I think of like the mission system that is like Southern California and Mexico is where like my brain goes, and I knew that wasn't it right And I could tell it was clearly based on a place, but I couldn't get that enough out of my head to actually think any it would. I got there. I got there eventually.

Gabriela:

The, the entire like mission system and the NDA system of Mexico and South America under Spanish colonization was really just beautifully brought over the ocean and introduced to spices and pearls on the other side. So it was a good visual. But more tropical. You know,

Lilly:

Yeah. Like I knew I wasn't right, but I also like, anyway, I figured it out. I got there.

Gabriela:

in book two, we have this beautiful map that I illustrated that is essentially a morph of actual Philippine topological data from the government website. So, I don't make it clearer for folks.

Lilly:

yes. Okay. Also, if anyone hasn't read this yet, it takes place in Eila. It's really entirely on me, and it's get clear the air. Just get that out there right away.

Sara:

The book, the book does make it pretty obvious.

Gabriela:

I've never heard that from anyone, so I am being new, like I do a lot of podcasts. I talk about the book a lot. I answer the same types of questions. That's new for me.

Lilly:

Yeah. Everyone has to talk to one dingus and today's your day. Anyway. Yeah. So, and then of course after I finish the book, your afterward talks a little bit about, the, the process of how you drew inspiration for the world building in this series, which you have just been shortlisted for an award for, can you tell us a little bit more about that process?

Gabriela:

Yeah, absolutely. So, like for pre-Colonial Philippine history, there are like a couple of seminal texts, but almost everything is actually written by Spanish Friars or other European, what's the word I'm looking for? Immigrants is not the right word, but Europeans who had come over written about their experiences, there is almost nothing written from like the Filipino perspective, from that timeframe of like early 16 hundreds to like late 17 hundreds. Wow, colonization is occurring. So of course I, you know, went to the Library of Congress, read all the seminal texts, even read. Text in archaic Spanish of like direct, like friar's accounts of the precolonial law system and culture. But when you're viewing your own culture through that like very fragmented lens, there are like a lot of, there's holes, right? There's, there's very little information and there were very big gaps. And I really struggled at first with like, how do I. Be as true to the culture and the history as possible, while also like filling in this world. So I kind of decided to take it from a very I'm gonna look at these holes and fill them in because I, I'm an author, I'm very creative and I'm gonna fill them in from the like perspective of someone who was raised in the Filipino culture and as a woman. Because a lot of these were written by. Very misogynistic individuals, understandably them being Catholic men. And colonizers,

Sara:

Shocker.

Gabriela:

I'm shocked. You're shocked. We're all shocked. So I really took it upon myself to fill in those spaces. Like yes, it is invention, but I also wanted it to be as true to like the cultural energy. And an ethos as I could. And sometimes I feel like I've done a great job and you know, I get these recognitions and sometimes I feel really bad because other Filipinos will approach me and be like, where did you find this? And I'm like, I didn't find it. I read the same four text as you did. And we went from there.

Sara:

Well, and you also definitely don't shy away from the realities of, and I wanna keep this kind of general because I feel like it, it does have some spoilery implications, but there are some horrors perpetrated by the missionaries. And you, you definitely don't shy away from that.

Gabriela:

Oh yeah, absolutely. And I was drawing not only on like pre-colonial accounts of the Spanish church's actions in the Philippines, but also on like family stories. And, and how women were generally treated under the colonial system. And. That's one of the reasons some people are really jarred by the fact that I kept the Catholic church, everything is left stepped fantasy, but like it's the Catholic church, it is Augustinians because my beef is specific and it, if I'd left stepped Catholicism and come up with lots of, lots of fantasy books to it. You like read it and it's oh, those are fantasy Catholics. But they come out feeling like a character like mustache twirling. It's almost funny seeming, but keeping it Catholic and actually honestly toning down some of the atrocities.'cause some of the quotes that I was reading were just like, absolutely cartoonishly, villainous. Like we've lit 40 priests on fire in order that by the light of their pyres the blindness maybe removed from the eyes of the people and they'll return to the faith. And I'm like, you burned people alive. Oh my God.

Lilly:

Yeah.

Gabriela:

Yeah, so whenever I get, I get reviews that are like, this is a very biased book. Colonialism had like good facets. It's way too out there. I'm like, I toned it down. I can prove it.

Sara:

Yeah, I'm, I, that's, that's a wild criticism I feel.

Lilly:

I wish I was more shocked

Gabriela:

They usually, the comments usually start with not to defend colonialism, but I'm always like, but to go on, I'm, I'm waiting, but.

Lilly:

Yeah, that was, I had to look it up. I, oh, well this is just more me admitting my ignorance about things.'cause there is, at one point a character quotes scripture to another character. And I was like, that sounds like that could be in the actual Bible. And it was. And that was when I was like, oh, okay. We're not pretending right here. This is, this is pretty nonfictional in this moment.

Gabriela:

Honestly, I kind of chickened out at the end. It was entirely historical fantasy. Like how far in was I like almost right up to the end. And then I'd read the Poppy War

Lilly:

Mm.

Gabriela:

and I'd seen how she'd left, stepped everything. Also at that same time, like kind of the diaspora wars were happening on Twitter and I was just watching like mainland Filipinos attempt to murder diaspora Filipinos. And I was like, you know, I really don't wanna be a part of this. I don't wanna be the middle contentious bone in this like violent nic conflict. So I'll just left step everything and if anyone says anything, I'll be like, it's a fantasy.

Lilly:

Yeah.

Gabriela:

So maybe I chickened out a little bit at the end there, but also that is why some parts are so brutally historical while also being this like slight left step.

Lilly:

It's, it's Aila, not Manila.

Gabriela:

know that it means where the indigo grows it.

Sara:

So switching gears just a little bit, I was fascinated to read in the bio at the back of the book that you are a chemical engineer by profession. Because sometimes it feels like an author's day job is very obvious in their writing. And I mean that like in a neutral sense, not in a, in a negative sense. But I didn't get that. Like I wouldn't have guessed that you were a chemical engineer for reading this book. Do you find that it has any impact on your writing process or style or, or do you keep it pretty separate?

Gabriela:

So, I've actually gotten both from readers. Some people say, I absolutely knew that you were a chemical engineer. And some people are like you, and they're like, I had no idea. And. I think it comes through in a few ways. I very much at the beginning thought, oh, no one can tell. But it comes through in what I care about when it comes to world building. Like I really care about how infrastructure affects society because I build infrastructure as part of my job. And I really care about the like nitty gritty chemical details of how all of this sabotage is going to work. Which is a spoiler I just realized kind of,

Lilly:

We won't say who or when.

Gabriela:

yes,

Sara:

I, I don't think it's any surprise that the people being colonized are not fans.

Gabriela:

yes, yes. So it was very interesting. A lot of reviews, early reviews were like, why? Do I have to learn so much about infrastructure? I'm like, by God, you will care about this bridge by the time I'm done.

Lilly:

So you, you mentioned kind of shifting from historical fantasy to a more fantasy focus for this book, for the series. What would you say is the genre that it ended up landing on?

Gabriela:

We've been calling it Filipino inspired epic fantasy,

Lilly:

Okay.

Gabriela:

which I think is the best term here.

Lilly:

Yeah. I know genre definitions are just like so personal. There's no wrong answer or every answer is wrong, depending on,

Gabriela:

Okay. I have a weird bone to pick about genre though. I like just learned that Good reads, crowdsource, it's shelving genres. And my book is shelved as Adult and ya. And I'm getting a whole slew of people who are so upset at this kind of content in a YA book and I'm sitting here going, at what point was it unclear to you that these people are in their mid to late twenties?

Sara:

I

Gabriela:

are spoiler alerts everywhere on every website. That'll let me put them on my website inside of the arcs.

Sara:

Well, I, it's a really well known issue that female authors, female fantasy authors get shelved as ya a when their novels aren't.

Gabriela:

It's really bad though. I live in Texas. They're gonna hunt me for sports.

Lilly:

They might do that anyway, to be fair.

Gabriela:

They might do that anyway. Before I had the shield of, well, I'm writing for adults, but it turns out a bunch of people think I'm not.

Lilly:

Well, it's hard too,'cause like I know when I was in high school, I read books that were not for high schoolers, but I knew what I was doing. I knew I wasn't reading a book that was supposed to be for me.

Gabriela:

I think it's healthy if you're not sneaking into the adult section in order to find all of the books that you want and hiding'em under your mattress at night to read with a flashlight. Are you growing up come.

Lilly:

So. I'm actually not sure what other questions we can ask without getting into spoiler conversation.

Sara:

much, there's so much about this book I wanna talk about, but I feel like it's all spoilers.

Gabriela:

Have we done like a pitch for the book

Lilly:

No, what

Gabriela:

Nons spoiler? Beginning bit.

Sara:

No, but absolutely. What is your elevator pitch for the book?

Gabriela:

My elevator pitch is fun. So I did mention that we have Dante Bosco. So it's a Filipino inspired avatar. The last Airbender, except the avatar is not a pacifist. And of course, Dante, Bosco, the voice of print. Zuko voice is our male narrator. I did it for all of us. By the time I got to book two and I knew we had Dante, I was like. I have the power of God to make this man say anything, but what if he never wants to work with me again? Hmm.

Lilly:

And I think that's a great pitch for book two.

Gabriela:

It's fun.

Sara:

And a great pitch for the audiobooks. Honestly, I'm not usually an audiobook person, like they just don't work for me as a format. But I might have to change that.

Gabriela:

I'm told that like it's a really immersive experience, like playing the audiobook and reading. I've never tried it. I've never combined them that way, but a bunch of people have been telling me they love it.

Lilly:

Interesting.

Sara:

I'm such a fast reader that I don't know if the pacing would work out personally, but that that is an interesting concept.

Lilly:

Really, it just means that I have to go on a road trip.'cause road trips are like the perfect time for an audio book. I don't get distracted by other stuff.

Gabriela:

Mm-hmm. Honestly, most of my audiobook reading happens while I commute.

Sara:

Yep.

Lilly:

And that's the only downside to working from home is I don't have a commute. I can't listen to audio

Gabriela:

Well, no.

Lilly:

In defense of working in the office, or, sorry, not to defend working in the office, that's what they were saying. Well, we have. A lot to talk about that we haven't even touched on. There is maybe a love triangle. I say maybe we'll get there. Some colonialism, some non pacifism. Sarah, who should read this book

Sara:

I mean, I actually kind of feel like Gabriella answered this question for me with, with her elevator pitch. If you, if you want Filipino inspired the last airbender, but no pacifism, then yeah, I like nailed it.

Lilly:

And before we jump into the spoiler conversation, book two just came out, and I apologize if this is a question that I should know the answer to, but is how many books are planned in the series?

Gabriela:

It is complete. The storm ringer Saga is a duology, and you had now binge from beginning to end.

Lilly:

I was really hoping you would say that. Not that I don't want more than two books, but I love me a complete

Gabriela:

Honestly, writing book two was so difficult. I don't know if I'm ever gonna write a series again, standalones forever. That was a brutal experience.

Lilly:

This episode of Fiction Fans is brought to you by Fiction Fans.

Sara:

That's us! We really appreciate our patrons, because otherwise we fund this podcast entirely ourselves.

Lilly:

Patrons can find weekly bonus content, monthly exclusive episodes, and have free access to our biannual zine, Solstitia.

Sara:

You can find all of that and more at patreon. com slash fictionfanspod. Thank you for all of your support.

Lilly:

The remainder of this episode contains spoilers.

Sara:

okay, so this is not actually a question per se but it was really interesting. I don't wanna say I loved it. Because it feels bad to say that I loved it, but it was really interesting.

Lilly:

Yay. Religious abuse.

Sara:

But it was really interesting to see the different reactions that all of the characters had to like colonization and the missionaries we have, for example, cat with her, she's just all in, in her religious conversion. Not really any second thoughts there. We get Sena trying to blow up this bridge and not wanting the the missionaries there, understandably so. And then we get Alan's father who's cozying up to the colonizers because that's what gives him power. And so it was, it was, I, I liked the breadth of human experience.

Gabriela:

Yeah, absolutely. And it was really important for me to actually have people from all of these different. Types of privilege and positions in society that were approaching the situation the same way because they're all living under the vista of this colonial empire. But each of their different privileges and connections in society affects how they can move through the world. So one of the reasons Catalina is so all in is because she is from the very like bottom rung of society, like mixed race of a brought over here to be a sandbag soldier and a native woman without, who is not one of the nobility. She doesn't have family support, she doesn't have that connection to her culture that like grounds when her in and Cina her best option to get ahead in the world is to throw in her lot with who's winning. And I think that's behind a lot of her toxic and all in approach to her faith. She's been made promises. If she can be the perfect Christian nun, she won't face the life that her social class would allot her if she left the church.

Sara:

Except that there's the tragedy because they're, they're not going to reward that kind of belief and behavior.

Gabriela:

No, that's the lie.

Sara:

Yeah.

Lilly:

The pitch that you gave earlier where there is not as much pacifism as perhaps one might expect in a book like this. I was so worried. I was so worried that it was going to resolve with Lunar Rin being the better person and winning by controlling her power. I was sent Sarah so many texts. I was like, oh no. Oh no. Where is this going?

Gabriela:

I actually had some early readers who was like, oh, so the way this is gonna go is like she's gonna be a better person and find ways to use her magic to heal and be a good person and take the high road. And I was like, I don't understand why you would think that's the direction this is going, because this is a corruption arc and that's a good thing.

Lilly:

yeah, it's not even corruption, like being true to herself finally. And I think part of that is, well, we expect that from stories like just. That's how marketable media tends to go. Right. But you set up such reprehensible bad guys that you have the reader like begging for some violence and like cheering when we get to the mass destruction. And I, I think that part of that was wrapped up in how brutally honest you were with the actions of missionaries and colonizers.

Sara:

Yeah, it feels really satisfying to see them get their comeuppance and all die, and sometimes in terrible ways.

Lilly:

Yeah.

Gabriela:

I went into the book with the promise of there we will be drowning, colonizers. And, and then I delivered on that promise. That was my whole goal for the book. But I knew there were gonna be people who were like, wow, this is so non conciliatory and we're supposed to take the high road and be better people and not genocide our enemies just like they genocided us. And I had opinions about that.

Lilly:

They gave them a chance to escape.

Gabriela:

yeah. Many chances were given and many chances were rejected.

Lilly:

Mm-hmm.

Sara:

Yeah, they had their chance. If they didn't take it, that's on them.

Lilly:

Well, it's that idea that like you can't negotiate when it's an uneven, uneven playing field.

Gabriela:

Yes, very much. And also I want it to be very much, you can't negotiate with nature. A typhoon is coming and you are on low ground, make a decision,

Lilly:

Mm-hmm.

Gabriela:

which seems very timely. Right now on the 20th anniversary of Katrina, I'm in Houston. That was a big event for us, obviously being very close to that and the refugees that came over. So like very much a typhoon is coming.

Lilly:

Yeah. Okay. Because Catalina is, I'm gonna say the worst,

Gabriela:

She is my horrible bitch and I love her. Okay?

Lilly:

But the, the relationship between her Luna, lunar and Alan didn't have the same tension as like a classic love triangle. Do you consider it a love triangle or is this more like a story arc of Luna Run, escaping an abusive relationship.

Gabriela:

Yes, I do market it as a love triangle,

Lilly:

Okay. Okay.

Gabriela:

So yes and yes. I guess, I, I really wanted to show, I don't know who among us has not had a toxic situationship where you're both in the closet and one of you is ready to like. Change and be free of that. And one of you is not. And like it's just this horrible, tragic situation where no one's in the wrong but you are brutally hurting each other. And I really wanted to put that on the page because everything about Catalina is like the ones we lose to colonialism and internal homophobia and just this self-hatred that eats you alive. Like I hate to Kat is an object lesson. that sounds bad, but it's what she is. She's very much a foil to learn and to be that object lesson of what it would mean to go full in on the promises that colonialism and half her blood has given her.

Lilly:

Mm-hmm.

Sara:

Well, and it's really satisfying to see Le and not forgive her at the end. Which I think goes hand in hand with what we were talking about expecting the main character to quote unquote be the better person. But as much as I understand where. Cat is coming from. She doesn't deserve forgiveness, so I was really glad that she didn't get it.

Gabriela:

Oh yeah. Like she like helped a genocide happen. Very much. And Lunar was like, I love you and I know why you did it, and I like understand the position you were in, but that was unforgivable.

Lilly:

Absolutely, and I mean, say what you will about their relationship. She's also pretty terrible to her little sister who has almost no one else to depend on, and I think that's what pushes her over into the like. I mean, okay. Genocides bad too, but on a personal like, as far as personal betrayals go she kind of told Luna Rin Hey, I'm always gonna be on the church's side. So that didn't surprise me as much, but I don't, I, I wanted her to be nicer to Inez. I don't know.

Gabriela:

Yeah. Yeah. Poor Ines. And I swear book two, I make it up to Ines. Book two is in NE's book. I felt really bad about what I did to that poor girl.

Sara:

She goes through some shit.

Lilly:

does.

Gabriela:

does. I felt so bad. You know how a lot of like fantasy, like has a fridged wife. Person and I was like, I feel like I'm utilizing a neda's tragedy in that way and I feel bad about it, but also like it's kind of necessary for me to have this personal and like very immediate effect of colonialism and religious persecution and just being a part of the church. Sorry.

Lilly:

And painfully realistic.

Gabriela:

Unfortunately.

Lilly:

Yeah. Well, speaking of Inez, there are some really wonderful side characters in this book. Can you talk a little bit about creating compelling characters without giving them like as much page time as a main character?

Gabriela:

Hmm. Okay. That's an interesting one.

Lilly:

Or, I can talk about how much I love Coit for an hour and a half.

Gabriela:

Yes. Oh my gosh. I got so attached to him and then when I realized what was gonna have big spoiler alert, when I realized I was gonna have to kill him, I was like, this is gonna tear everyone's hearts out. What have I done? I think, I think a big thing about like making. Side characters that are really compelling is to give them like really strong tie-ins to your main characters because that relationship connection lets you build out who they are as a person in a way that's much harder. If they don't have that connection. So like even someone like the COEs and Spy Pra Isla, who doesn't have a lot of connections to NAR or Allen, him being Alan's father's spy tells you a lot about who he is as a person without me saying much at all. So I think that's probably my side character tip of the day.

Lilly:

Yeah, but I, I think my first comment I was like, oh, he's me. He had just left the note on Alan's table to like, go fucking talk to your goddamn wife.

Gabriela:

Go fix it. Oh,

Lilly:

talk to each other.

Gabriela:

And then when I heard, so Denise Cabella was the narrator for Lenin's part for book one. But the way she narrates like. Older Filipino characters is so on point. It's so like accurate how like my aunts and uncles and grandmother and grandfather sound. So that first line from Coit, I was like, oh no. Oh, this is gonna hurt so much more than I thought it was gonna hurt.

Sara:

Talking about the audiobook for one moment, how much control did you have over selecting the narrators?

Gabriela:

So fun story. I actually got to pitch the project to Dante Boscos agent myself.

Lilly:

oh, cool.

Gabriela:

so like Dante Bosco is my like pie in the sky. This will never happen, but I love it. Suggestion to Spotify and they were like, you're right. That will never happen. But he is a great, he would be great for it. But actually, so you know, the six degrees of Kevin Bacon, how every single person in the world is six degrees removed from Kevin Bacon among Filipinos. It's like the three degrees of separation from any famous Filipino. So Dante Boscos brother Derek Bosco, attends my Filipino family, reunions of my cousins on my grandfather's side in California, and his wife is Dante's agent. You better believe. As soon as I found that out, I worked that connection. I had zero shame. I was like, auntie, anything you need, like I'll make rice. I'm happy to carry that for you. Do you want, because I wanted the chance to pitch this project to Dante Bosco he has been like really supportive of Filipino creative works. There was recently Ree, it's a, I don't know how to describe it, it's a Netflix anime, but it's Filipino. And he was a lightning elemental in that. And I heard him and I was like, oh, he is interested in doing more work of that type in Filipino media. I absolutely have to pitch my book to him. And somehow Spotify then made it happen. So, hats off to them. They've got deep pockets. I was his very first audiobook, which was very exciting.

Lilly:

That's awesome. I, I've heard his voice pop up in video games before. I know. And it's always like kind of a fun, like, where do I know that from? Oh shit.

Gabriela:

it's Prince Zuko. It's Ruo I love how like some, some voice actors are like incredibly dynamic. His skill is just being him and having this incredibly rich, wonderful voice that I don't want it to change. I just want him to sound like him.

Lilly:

So you, you mentioned that you took that left step before finishing this book. What other changes did this go through? How close is the final product to your original sort of inception?

Gabriela:

Oh, this is a hard one because. Like the original, original draft of Saints of Storm and Sorrow was something that I wrote while I was in the middle of high school. And it was always this story about a failed child chosen one, and there was always this angry goddess. But I was growing so much as a writer and revising so much. I changed all the character names at least three times. I changed the setting at least four times. And there was always something missing at the heart of it. And then finally probably around 2018, I made friends with a Taiwanese American fantasy author. And Mia Si is like my writing mentor. She's my writing auntie. I love her. She wrote Bitter Medicine, which was a Taiwanese fantasy set in like Georgia. And she was like, there is an audience for this incredibly niche thing. The reason your story doesn't work is'cause your characters are all Filipino. But if there's an audience for Taiwanese fantasy, like there will be an audience for Filipino fantasy. And that was a light bulb moment for me. I like sat down and rewrote the entire book as Filipino in 30 days. 131,000 words during Nana Remo.

Sara:

That's a lot of words.

Gabriela:

I don't recommend it, but everything slotted into place, every character like motivation and like that hadn't made sense before, instantly made sense. Once everyone was Filipino. I can't explain it. But so, so much changed. But I feel like the heart of the story and. The main characters very much remain the same.

Sara:

So during this lengthy what I'll call revision process. Were there any scenes that surprised you as the story changed or did it all, like you say, just absolutely make sense for, for what you were going for?

Gabriela:

It was totally rewritten from the ground up. I will say like a lot of things changed completely. Early drafts of the book did not end in a cataclysmic destruction of the Palisade at all.

Sara:

Yeah, boo.

Gabriela:

One version ended in a courtroom scene. A guy did die in the middle, but it did end in a courtroom scene.

Sara:

Not quite the same level of destruction.

Gabriela:

Exactly. So yeah, so much changed, but it felt very right when I wrote the story. As Filipinos set in the Philippines set, like facing Spanish colonization that it felt very right for the story.

Sara:

I, yeah, I can't actually imagine it not being that.

Gabriela:

It was originally a middle like European semi medieval fantasy because that's what I was reading. I was in high school.

Lilly:

yeah, I can imagine it.'cause I had nightmares about it when I was halfway through reading it.

Gabriela:

Oh

Lilly:

I was like prepared to get so mad,

Gabriela:

Some people were like, what if she loses her power at the end? And I was like, that is absolutely the worst trope that has ever existed. And that's not gonna happen.

Lilly:

Yeah, but it's a trope because it does happen like in in other stories.

Gabriela:

It happens so often and it's so frustrating. don't understand it. You build up this awesome, epic, powerful female character and they're like, and we'll take that away no

Sara:

thank you.

Lilly:

Yeah. Isn't it better without this? No.

Gabriela:

no. Absolutely not.

Lilly:

Yeah. I don't as as a reader, as a media consumer,'cause it's not just books, right? It's, I feel like TV shows and movies. Our big culprits of this too. I'm just so trained to expect I, and I think Lunar and talks about this a lot, having to make yourself small, especially female characters, like needing to make themselves small for their quote unquote, happy ending.

Gabriela:

Yes.

Lilly:

I'm really

Gabriela:

wanted to write a character that like is terrifying and powerful and finds a place and people who are like. Who love her for that. I feel like my biggest pet peeve when you're reading any fantasy series is like you have this really cool, epic female character. She falls in love and suddenly every single part of her personality goals life is about being that dude's wife and like she never does anything cool ever again. And it drives me up a wall.

Lilly:

Yeah.

Gabriela:

So book two is very much Alan and Lunar in are happily married and in their thirties and fucking shit up.

Lilly:

May we all have that happy ending.

Gabriela:

Yes, it's the ending. We all deserve men in our lives who go, yeah babe, I'll hold your flower for you.

Lilly:

I am here with some salt water. I got your back.

Gabriela:

Absolutely.

Lilly:

I did. I really loved Ilan. And honestly just because he saw Lunar and like he really saw her and appreciated her in a way that she clearly didn't get very much.

Sara:

Well, and he also has such a lovely I really loved his like, confrontation with Catalina at the end, where he's like, no, you know. I hope she never loves me like the way that she loves you, because that's unhealthy. You guys have a terrible relationship.

Gabriela:

That was so powerful to write.

Sara:

Yeah, it was, it was an incredible scene.

Gabriela:

I am very much I like nice men. For real, for real. Like I, I know fantasy oh, we love our shadow daddy and we love this like intense, inescapable, toxic love that is like all encompassing. But I was like, no, that kind of sucks. It's kind of really bad when you're like, no, I'm all in for this person no matter what, up, down, left. Whatever they do, I'm behind them like, no man.

Lilly:

Mm-hmm.

Gabriela:

Absolutely not.

Lilly:

Alan is a love interest that you would actually want to date, not just is fun and sexy to read about.

Gabriela:

Yes.

Lilly:

Yeah. And actually along those lines, oh no, I wrote down his name, a fairly minor character or at least we don't see nearly as much of him as Alan obviously. But there's a moment near the end when. Cena apologizes for burning breakfast. She's like, I should have just stayed out of the way. And he was like, no, you can go wherever you want. And I was like, oh no. Do I love him even more than Alan now?

Gabriela:

They're my favorite, be rank couple. If I ever do just like some extra little scenes from like this universe, it's gonna be Isco and Cena's like relationship I in a very previous version. Of Saints not set in the Philippines. I had a whole little series of short like single scene version of their relationship and they are precious. I love those two.

Sara:

I mean, honestly, I would read a book about them just saying.

Lilly:

And there's the little hints that we got throughout this book because like you could. You could see that there was something there and then just like we only got glimpses, but it was beautiful.

Sara:

Yeah, they were adorable. I loved them.

Gabriela:

You'll get to see a little bit more of them being like all married and shit in book two, and it's fun.

Sara:

Excellent. So speaking of book two, can, I don't want not spoilers'cause this is, even though this is the spoiler section, it's the spoiler section for Saints of Storm and Sorrow not for Daughters of Flood and Fury. Did I get the title right? Yeah. Can you tell us a little bit about what we can expect in book two?

Gabriela:

Okay. Yeah. So Book two takes place five years after the end of book one. So there's a pretty significant time jump. the immediate aftermath of recovery is passed. Like we are now living in a world where we are like trying to find a balance between old ways and the new ways. And. Okay. I'm trying to figure out a, a short pitch for this that isn't spoilery. Okay. So, remember that female Asian pirate from Pirates of the Caribbean?

Lilly:

Yes.

Gabriela:

I saw her and I was like, I need to know so much more about that woman. And then the really intense political intrigue and infighting and like intense political fantasy of like House of the Dragon. I kind of mashed those two things together and Inez gets to go off on a pirate adventure and Rene and Allen get to wrangle their families as they attempt to prevent them all being wiped out by the approaching Co C and Armada.

Sara:

Well, I don't love that for them

Gabriela:

Everyone's like, I want there to be a book three. And I'm like, you don't want me to have any more time in these characters lives. I want them to be free of me. They want to be free of me, they want to be happy, and I want that for them.

Lilly:

Yeah.

Sara:

But I do love that for Inez.

Lilly:

Yes. Before we let you go, is there any current projects that our listeners should be excited for other than obviously book two that just came out?

Gabriela:

absolutely. So, oh gosh, what's the title of it? Flametree. Publishings. Which, which Witches En Folklore. Okay. It's a really long anthology title. I got to submit a witchy gothic short story based on my grandmother's like love story of being a like roadside vegetable seller who marries the youngest son of the richest local family. And they really hated her for that. And then I took that and I wrote like a really creepy gothic Filipino fantasy around it, which I think she would've loved because she was she was a great woman, but really dark in her soul in a great way. So that's coming out. That was a number one new release on Amazon for a hot minute when that went live. That comes out in January, I wanna say. And then I'm working on my first truly historical. Fantasy novella and it'll be set in Manila during the Japanese occupation during World War ii because I like the easy and simple times in history to talk about that are non-controversial.

Lilly:

You're not gonna make anyone mad.

Gabriela:

No one's gonna be mad about this, I'm sure. I'm really nervous.

Lilly:

Yeah.

Sara:

Well, awesome. I am so excited for these projects. Definitely going to be keeping an eye out for them. Can you tell our listeners where you can be found on the internet so that they can, keep track of what you're working on and, and all of these things?

Gabriela:

Absolutely. I am at Gabriela Buba just about everywhere except TikTok, where I'm at, Gabriela Bubba's books. And I'm Gabriela buba.com.

Lilly:

Well, thank you again for joining us. This has been great. Loved reading the book. Can't wait, wait to read that short story. Sounds incredible. looking forward to your other work.

Gabriela:

Absolutely. Thank you guys for having me on.

Sara:

Yeah. Thank you for joining us.

Lilly:

Thank you so much for listening to this episode of Fiction Fans.

Sara:

Come disagree with us! We're on Blue Sky and Instagram, at fictionfanspod. You can also email us at fictionfanspod at gmail. com. Or leave a comment on YouTube.

Lilly:

If you enjoyed the episode, please rate and review on Spotify and Apple Podcasts, and follow us wherever your podcasts live.

Sara:

We also have a Patreon where you can support us and find exclusive episodes and a lot of other nonsense.

Lilly:

Thanks again for listening, and may your villains always be defeated.

Sara:

Bye!