Fiction Fans

Chai and Cat-tales by Lynn Strong

• Episode 190

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Your hosts are joined by Lilly's cats to discuss Chai and Cat-tales by Lynn Strong. They cover how much they love cats, the unexpected delight of finding recipes in a novel, how much they love cats, inclusive fantasy in a cozy setting, how much they love cats, what makes a romance and finally, how much they love cats. Lilly did cut some of the cat talk, they promise.


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Thanks to the following musicians for the use of their songs:

- Amarià for the use of “Sérénade à Notre Dame de Paris”
- Josh Woodward for the use of “Electric Sunrise”

Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 4.0 License

Lilly:

Hello and welcome to Fiction Fans, a podcast where we read books and other words too. I'm Lily.

Sara:

And I am Sarah and Mr. Squeak is giving me such a mad face that I moved my foot from under her chin.

Lilly:

Well, this is a cat centric episode, so I think she is just getting her resentment energy out at the beginning.

Sara:

It is possible. And by that I mean we are reading chai and Cattails by Lynn Strong, getting back on track with our general opening.

Lilly:

There's gonna be some pet distractions in this conversation just due to the nature of the book. I feel like this collection of stories wants us to do that.

Sara:

Yes, I agree. I think this collection of stories invites us to do that.

Lilly:

Indeed. And on that note, I was really tempted to say that my good thing for this week was just honestly the act of reading this book with my cats. I, not that the cats were reading it with me, I'm not quite there yet on the cat lady spectrum. But I finished it this morning and I had one cat on my belly and the other cat on my feet and I was just like, this is how this book was meant to be experienced.

Sara:

That absolutely is how you are supposed to read this book.

Lilly:

It was incredible. And it was kind of rainy, which was like it was not quite the right weather for the stories.'cause they're all very like hot deserty. But it was cozy, so I'll take it. It's not actually my good thing though. My good thing is that my mouse has been acting up lately and I finally got a pair of tweezers and pulled the cat hair that had been stuck in the little optic spot. And so now it works like a normal mouse. Again,

Sara:

Amazing

Lilly:

still cat related, but they're the villain in that story.

Sara:

cats can be villains too. We, we support cat rights and cat wrongs.

Lilly:

What is your good thing that happened this week?

Sara:

My good thing is not cat related, but it is food related, so it still feels appropriate to this book. A good friend of mine came and visited this weekend and we spent Saturday doing cheese tasting in Marin. We went from like cheese producer to cheese producer and it was fantastic. And then we ended the day with oysters. It was a lovely, lovely day.

Lilly:

You can't beat that. Maybe throw in a cat or two then, then maybe.

Sara:

We did not bring the pugs because Mr. Squeak is a bad traveler.

Lilly:

Fair. What are you drinking tonight?

Sara:

So this book Delightfully has lots of recipes at the back of it that are related to the stories that were in it. I did not actually make one of the recipes but I did think about it. But then it was a lot of effort and it was too hot and I was like, I'm, I'm not going to, but I'm having the alternative version of NA's Crimson Witches Brew, which is wine.

Lilly:

Yeah, me too. I went through the exact same process as you. I even planned it out. I was like, okay, Priya's, brindle, kitten, chai, yes, I'm gonna make some hot chocolate. The lazy version. I loved that the recipes had a lazy version, except that's not what it was called. It was called something much nicer and more inclusive than that. But like for me, that's what it would've been. It was like with some hot chocolate and some nutmeg and ginger and shit added, and I was really looking forward to it. And then you know, work happened. So Red Wine, it is

Sara:

Yes,

Lilly:

Crimson Witches Brew is a better name though.

Sara:

it, it's an excellent name

Lilly:

Yeah.

Sara:

and I appreciate that there were so many drinks for us to choose from.

Lilly:

I loved it and all of the food. Okay, we're getting ahead of ourselves, but there was a lot of food in this book and I feel like in the moment in the stories, just the name of the dish was used that I was not super familiar with every time, but they did get described in more detail in the author's notes at the end of each story. And I appreciated that because then it like didn't break the flow of the narrative, but I still had more context. It was nice.

Sara:

Yeah, I agree. And then we also get the recipe for some of them in this recipe section, but we are getting ahead of ourselves

Lilly:

they, we were distracted by food.

Sara:

on brand for us.

Lilly:

Have you read anything good lately?

Sara:

I have just been reading podcast books, which one of these days I will change. Actually no, that's not true. I have been reading solstice submissions.

Lilly:

There you go. It feels like it counts as podcast books because it does, but not the same like conversational topic. Yeah,

Sara:

Yeah. So, we're very, very late on those, but I am enjoying them.

Lilly:

yeah. Yes. To both of those statements. I have been working my way through, I think I mentioned this before, I got a book of logic puzzles where it gives you the little scenario and then the like five hints and you're supposed to figure out, it gives you a grid and you

Sara:

Yeah, you, you have talked about them.

Lilly:

and we've been, we've been doing those in the evenings. It's nice. The problem I've had with us moving more towards eBooks is that it does mean, I'm looking at a screen more. And so in the evening, you know something, something blue light something, something sleep hygiene, I don't know. So winding down in the evening with a pen and paper logic puzzle has been really nice.

Sara:

Nice. Mm-hmm.

Lilly:

very cozy in the same way that this collection was cozy.

Sara:

Oh, this collection was so cozy. So it is three novellas set in the same. Not just the same city, but like the same neighborhood of a city. It is a Middle Eastern setting fantasy setting. And it features people living alongside CAT people. And it was just, it was so delightful. I loved it so much.

Lilly:

It was very quirky and silly, but like in the right way. I don't know how to explain that exactly, but,

Sara:

It was just nice.

Lilly:

yeah. And it wasn't cozy in the way that some stories are where like nothing happens. Like there are stakes, people are worried. There are, there are social, the fear of social repercussions. There's physical injuries, like stuff happens. But

Sara:

I mean, I would.

Lilly:

comforting

Sara:

I would say that the stakes are very individual. So it's not like a high stakes thing that necessarily

Lilly:

trying to save the kingdom from an impending doom. Yeah.

Sara:

Yeah. And I have read some cozy fantasy stories that have higher stakes like that. And it's just that the vibe is cozier rather than the story. But I think for this, it was a nice mix of story being cozy and vibes being cozy.

Lilly:

Well, and you know, I love a close story. Give me small personal stakes that is like my personal happy place just to begin with. So that did not that didn't make it feel less on the grand scheme of things. Maybe just because of who I am as a reader,

Sara:

I mean, sometimes it's nice to read about an individual living their life and having problems that are personal to them. Like not every story has to be about world issues.

Lilly:

I am really sick of saving the world, just like in general. And that's not a comment on any specific story. Just like overall. So you mentioned that this is sort of a high fantasy Middle East. There's definitely some Egypt vibes. The, I'm gonna say king figure, the, the political ruler of the region is called the God emperor, which is giving Pharaoh to me. And then of course we have some very Egyptian gods. There's baste, of course the goddess of cats can't have this world without baste, but there are other influences, well, that strong kind of goes into at the end in her author's notes. And it was really fun, just kind of like. Picking up the threads as we went through. And whenever you're introduced to a new fantasy world, you're kind of like, okay, orienting myself what's going on? There's cats that are regular cats, but also turn into cat people. Great. I'm into this.

Sara:

I have turned into the kind of reader over the course of during this, doing this podcast who really enjoys seeing like the author's thought process about the book. Like for example, I never used to read acknowledgements pages and now I find it really fascinating to see who the author wants to thank in a book. And so I loved that there were so many. Notes at the end where strong kind of goes into some of the world building details.

Lilly:

Yes, there, there was the overall one at the end of the collection that I think strong gets more into sort of the, I'm gonna say the, the religion of this fantasy world and, and influences in that sense. But there's also an author's note at the end of each individual story, and I loved that section. It really. I mean, it added to the cozy vibes. It felt like I was sitting there having a conversation with Lynn Strong at the end of each one, and it just made the whole thing just like warm and fuzzies all around.

Sara:

Yes. Agreed. It, it felt like having a dialogue which I appreciated.

Lilly:

We get some little glimpses of magic in the first story. Nara is, I would say she's the main character of the first story.

Sara:

I think so,

Lilly:

She has some charm craft that she sort of pedals on their way to their destination. I don't wanna talk too much about the specifics of the stories. We'll do that more in the spoiler section. But we, we get a sense that like, there is magic, but no ones should throwing fireballs around, or at least not that we heard about.

Sara:

yeah. I mean, I, I think that we do get a sense that there's maybe some slightly larger magics than what NARA is doing just in the background of the story, but nothing that's super explicit. And then there's also talk about magic in the third story as well.

Lilly:

And the second story, the same character. Actually, I loved the overlap in characters.

Sara:

Yes. Yes.

Lilly:

fun. Sort of getting a, a different pers, not perspective exactly, but approaching the same characters from different angles and different narratives.

Sara:

it really felt like we were getting lives in a city. Right? Like it, it just, it seeing the same character from these different perspectives really fleshed out city life.

Lilly:

Yeah. Okay, so we've gotta talk about the cats, folk. Oh my gosh. It was, I will admit they're not like a huge role in the first story, so I was like, this feels a little shoehorned in here. I don't really get why this is happening, but I'm into cats. I'm not gonna complain. And then as we went through the stories, you know, seeing different angles. The second one follows Priya, who is a kitten, which was delightful.

Sara:

yes, I really enjoyed the, the cats. They were great.

Lilly:

especially the difference in, I mean, it's all third person But there's, it's very close third person. So we did get a lot of internal thoughts from these characters, but the narrative wasn't. And so that second story follows a kitten and her grasp on the language is not like quite there. I, and that, that moment I have to do, I'm sure I've done this joke before because I, I love it and it's awful, but um, where does Napoleon keep his armies

Sara:

I don't know.

Lilly:

in his sleeves?

Sara:

That is indeed quite terrible.

Lilly:

I love it. Anyway, Priya, the kitten is trying to remember the word for armies and she's like, little arms umlets, something like that. And it made me think of in his sleeves. There's some other really good cat related language in that story. In particular, Priya mentions Scamper Madness, which is a much more dignified way to say poop zoomies.

Sara:

I feel like Pugs do Scamper madness too. Not necessarily pup poop zoomies, but Scamper madness.

Lilly:

yeah, there's also regular zoomies, but I wanted to give the uh, the full range of dignity that my cats have, which is, yes, they rule the house also, sometimes they have poop zoomies, which is after they go to the bathroom, they must launch themselves out of the toilet as fast as catley possible

Sara:

Is it because they're making

Lilly:

to the other side of the

Sara:

bad smells?

Lilly:

I don't, I think they just get the zoomies after they poop. I think it's a thing other cats have. I've heard rumors. Of this happening with other cats. I don't think it's unique to mine anyway. Versus Katz demanding dignity in, I think the third story, the characters mentioned how you can't really tell the difference in Basts Temple, who's a cat, who's a priestess, and who's a goddess, and they all expect the same respect anyway, so just treat'em all. Nice.

Sara:

As they should.

Lilly:

Yeah. It's the cat vibes. Oh, so good.

Sara:

I really liked the bit about the statues in the temple moving around so that they could be placed in the best like sunspot.

Lilly:

Delightful.

Sara:

it was such perfect cat vibes. Oops.

Lilly:

my God. It Okay. I think worth discussing. I am obviously. A cat person. I don't say that to the detriment of dogs. Just like I have cats, I'm into cats love dogs too. But you know. Do you think someone who is specifically not a cat person would enjoy this book?

Sara:

I mean,

Lilly:

I think you can be neutral on cats,

Sara:

yeah, I like, I, you definitely can enjoy this book if you are neutral on cats because the. Really cat heavy story is the second one, like the other two don't feature cats quite as heavily. They're in the background, but

Lilly:

I think the second one carries it like the cat stuff the most because it is such an interesting character study in a fantasy sense.

Sara:

yes, agreed.

Lilly:

So even though it's the most cat centric, I feel like it's the least necessary to be into cats, ironically.

Sara:

yeah, because, because it's such a strong character, Priya is so I would agree with that. And obviously I'm not, I don't have cats, but I like cats in the way that you like dogs. Like, I like cats. I just don't have them. So I'm not a, I'm not a cat person because I don't have cats, but so I'm not sure if I'm the, like most qualified to judge. I. But I, I do think that as long as you don't hate cats and the concept of cats and everything about cats, like, you'll be fine.

Lilly:

Yeah, I, I mean, I know there's some people who are like that, so I just like fair warning. I think it would be obvious from the conversation so far, but

Sara:

Well, and also from the, from the title, it's pretty clear from the title that this book involves cats in some capacity

Lilly:

and the cover. and the cover.

Sara:

and the cover.

Lilly:

Yeah, I interrupted. My husband was in the middle of a game of League of Legends and I was like, no, you have to look at this book cover.

Sara:

Did he appreciate the cover?

Lilly:

He probably would've appreciated it more if I had waited. Yeah. But worth it. So I will admit that over the course of reading this collection, I did notice that I have a disconnect mentally. As far as physical affection goes, that usually doesn't come up just in general. But this idea that physical affection towards pets is. Not just fine but expected. Like someone who didn't pat a sweet dog on the head who came up and really wanted to meet them, I would kind of look down on, unless you're allergic, obviously that doesn't count.

Sara:

Or scared

Lilly:

Yes.

Sara:

there. There are reasons why you might not pet a dog, but

Lilly:

But in general, if a dog wants to say hello to you, you would like scratch the behind the ears and like maybe stroke them along the back. Or same thing with a cat. Oh man. If a cat wanted to say hello to you, come on. But physical affection between people is not that way.

Sara:

for you specifically, you mean.

Lilly:

don't think so.

Sara:

Like, like when you, when you view it,

Lilly:

I think, I mean, I think if I saw two people sitting in like a cafe and one of them was like caressing the back of the other one's head, I would be like, that's kind of strange.

Sara:

I disagree with you very strongly.

Lilly:

Really? Okay.

Sara:

I mean, I, I disagree with you in the sense that I don't think it should be strange. I, society I think has kind of conditioned us to view affection between people as a romantic and as an inherently romantic or sexual thing. And it shouldn't be

Lilly:

Well, yeah. I'm not saying that this is a good thing. I'm just saying that it was very obvious while I was reading

Sara:

Right, right. I'm, and I'm saying that I think that society agrees with you and like that's where you're coming from. But it's not inherently that way. Like I'm very physically a, a affectionate with lots of my friends and it's not romantic or sexual'cause I'm ace and have no interest in that. Like, it's just we, you know, make contact.

Lilly:

No, I, I think that's a good thing. I also am a generally physically affectionate person, and I'm not ace and it still doesn't mean anything sexual,

Sara:

Yeah.

Lilly:

but I still, I do think if I saw two people doing that in public, it would be like, what? Maybe it's the like private versus public thing, I don't know, anyway.

Sara:

And so I, I guess what, what I'm saying is I think your brain is wrong to think that

Lilly:

Or I am instinctively reacting to the social norms that I have learned.

Sara:

Yes, yes.

Lilly:

because I also do those things anyway, but. I definitely had some times where I was reading this and I was like, you guys are just snuggling because the cats are sentient, right? These are cat people. And I was like, no, if this was a cat, cat, that would be totally fine. There's more lapse sitting than I would generally expect, you know?

Sara:

There, there is some lapse sitting, but I love that because I think that we should normalize this kind of contact between friends.

Lilly:

Sure. Yeah. I just, I just wanted to note that like while I was reading this, I noticed that and I was

Sara:

Yeah, yeah,

Lilly:

this is happening in myself.

Sara:

yeah. Like I, I don't disagree with where you're coming from. I just think that it's wrong and socially normalized and we should be actively working against that.

Lilly:

I guess maybe I should. Do I have to clarify that when I say strange, I mean unusual, which is empirically true. That doesn't make it bad.

Sara:

yes, you should. You should clarify that.

Lilly:

Okay. Yeah. Not bad. Just unusual is the way I'm saying. Strange.

Sara:

Yes. But strong does mention that she was very intentional about wanting this, these stories to be incredibly inclusive. And I love that this is, you know, one dimension of that.

Lilly:

Oh yeah, absolutely. And I think, wouldn't it be nice if we could just, like, I don't know, the, I'm a big hugger, which as far as physical affection go is pretty like down on the totem pole, right? But anyway.

Sara:

Yeah. I just like, when I have too much to drink, I get really cuddly. I just wanna cuddle with someone.

Lilly:

Yeah.

Sara:

In a friendly, platonic way,

Lilly:

Yeah,

Sara:

and we should normalize that.

Lilly:

it's nice. Holding hands should be more normal. Yeah.

Sara:

Agreed,

Lilly:

sorry, not more normal. More usual.

Sara:

more prevalent,

Lilly:

Yeah.

Sara:

seen more often in non-romantic context.

Lilly:

Mm-hmm. I think the ultimate cozy moment for me, which is funny because in her author's note strong was like, I can't go into this'cause it wouldn't be cozy for me to talk about it, but she begins to defend pumpkin spice, and I was like, yeah,

Sara:

I, I wanted that entire defense. I was sad. Yeah. I was sad that she didn't go into it.

Lilly:

I get that that might be a more angry essay than she wanted her author's note to be. But yeah, let people like things.

Sara:

Release, the Pumpkin Spice Defense essay.

Lilly:

Yeah. Oh, just everything about this. Even when there were moments, like I had a favorite story, which does imply the existence of a least favorite story. But even then, I enjoyed them all and had a great time reading them. I think this came at a very good time also, which I don't know, sometimes you just want a big literary hug.

Sara:

Yeah, it was, I mean, I would've enjoyed this book regardless of the time in which I read it, but I think having this kind of cozy distraction at this moment in particular helped make it hit, it would've been good anyway. But it was definitely right book, right time as well.

Lilly:

100%. So who should read this book if you like? Fantasy, if you like cats.

Sara:

Yes.

Lilly:

Either of the above.

Sara:

if you want something cozy and you're neutral on cats,

Lilly:

yeah,

Sara:

you can still read this book.

Lilly:

yeah, yeah. That was or if you like cats, you don't have to like fantasy and cats if you like. Either you would like this, especially if you're looking for cozy.

Sara:

Yeah. And also if you want just a couple of bite-sized stories, like they are short novellas, they're not long they're very easy to read. You can read one, put it down. You know, for however long you need to and then pick up the other. Because even though they're related, they're not

Lilly:

It is not a through plot

Sara:

yeah, they don't, they don't follow each other, you don't have to read the first one in order to enjoy the second one.

Lilly:

Strong does mention that there are other stories in this world that have been published and then there's a a plan for another collection, I believe.

Sara:

Strong mentioned that there's going to be a, a trilogy. I think about the Prince in the first book or in the first story presumably also including nausea, I hope. And then, yeah, it. Sounded like there were maybe some more stories.

Lilly:

Well, I'm looking forward to it.

Sara:

I definitely want to read more in this like world. Like I'm, I'm absolutely going to keep an eye out for, for more of these books because I loved them.

Lilly:

Absolutely.

Sara:

I, sorry, I'm just distracted. Looking at Lynn Strong's website which says there is going to be a book, chai and Charm Craft,

Lilly:

I, I thought I remembered.

Sara:

and also future books and stories. Yet to be titled, they're mostly written, but they're resisting names. And there's also a queer cozy remake of Cinderella that

Lilly:

I am seeing that.

Sara:

yeah, that features the prints of the first story in chi and cattails in wine. RAF's Valentine's special 2024.

Lilly:

I am hyped for a full actual romance, although this is kind of going back into our conversation,

Sara:

Yes. Okay.

Lilly:

because my first comment is, okay, I guess I rearranged it and it's no longer the first comment. We're going in, we're going straight

Sara:

we have not done the Patreon plug.

Lilly:

so I'll edit it in at the end.

Sara:

Okay. Okay.

Lilly:

Okay. Really quick. Patreon, unplug A, we have a Patreon. Do you wanna hear us play, shoot, screw, or marry with the characters In these stories? Great. Go. Listen. Kay. The remainder of this episode contains spoilers. Did the first story count as romance?

Sara:

In my opinion, no, because the two characters are not romantically interested in each other. They like each other. They think that they could have potentially a successful marriage or a good like relationship, but they are not romantically interested in each other.

Lilly:

Okay, but what if it is a romance? Hear me out. Okay. If the two main characters don't end up together, it could still be a romance storyline, and it's about them like figuring out their relationship and sort of how to interact with each other and where they stand and,

Sara:

so question for you then. How are you defining romance? Are you defining romance as a romantic relationship between the two characters? Because I don't think it's that, or are you defining it as a romance story? Because in that case, yes, I agree with you. They are figuring out the relationship and realizing they don't work.

Lilly:

Okay. I'm certainly not using the genre definition of romance where a girl meets boy, boy does dumb thing. Girl breaks up with boy, boy, apologizes. They end up together and finally kiss, like, definitely not using the real genre definition. And I know that's probably not the real genre definition, but I also hate the like strict rules around the romance genre. So not using that, I think it hits me the same way that a good romance story hits me.

Sara:

I think that's valid. I still don't think it's a romance story, but I think that that is absolutely valid.

Lilly:

Sure. But what do you call something that appeals to you for the exact same reasons. It's about people and relationships and

Sara:

yes, and that doesn't have to be romantic.

Lilly:

Okay. Well, I would like to instead expand romance to it doesn't have to be, except I'm gonna use the word romance with two different definitions, which is just bad. It doesn't have to be sexual. It's, it's kind of like it doesn't come up, actually, it kind of does come up in this, the idea of platonic soulmates.

Sara:

yes. Which I still don't think is a romance. I think like, okay, so let me, let me try to arrange my thoughts.

Lilly:

Ooh. A good, oh, oh no. I'll let you actually rebut before I go off on a go off.

Sara:

Yes, I agree. Romance doesn't have to be sexual. Like there's a difference between a romantic and asexual. Like you can, you can like romance without liking the sex. You can like sex without liking the romance. They're two separate things. We agree there.

Lilly:

Yes.

Sara:

Absolutely. But I think that there remains value in differentiating romance from platonic relationships. However, however deep and meaningful they are, because people don't always want a, like a romantic connection.

Lilly:

A love story. I, okay. I think the problem is that I'm using the word romance for like three different. Ways of using it, which is unfair and unhelpful and not how language should work.

Sara:

Yes.

Lilly:

So in that case, I will concede you're right, but I don't think there is like, uh, a thing for, let's talk about sweet tender relationships between people or even not sweet and tender, like toxic friendships. I don't know.

Sara:

and well, I was gonna say like that's why I don't actually disagree with you calling this a romance story arc, where two people are like. Discover, like dealing with their relationship and how they want it to progress and deciding that they don't work together as a couple, like I don't actually disagree with you in that sense because you're right. We don't have the friendship equivalent terms necessarily, but I don't think that the relationship between the two of them is a romantic one. They are not romantically interested in each other. Therefore it's not a romance in that sense.

Lilly:

Okay. I agree with that. I do not ship the main characters. I'm not like, that would be, I'm gonna say it a little psychotic and I might push hard for romance, but I'm not there yet. And all the way that I don't remember his name,

Sara:

Raha.

Lilly:

Raha describes the like, man of his dreams was just very sweet. And I think to me, his longing is what? Pushed me into wanting to call it romantic overall. But then we're also getting into the other definition of romantic, right? Like it's not a romance in the like Danielle Steele concept of romance. It's

Sara:

I mean, it's not a love story. They're not in love with each other. They, they don't have, they don't have romantic feelings for each other.

Lilly:

So then I would push back and say that there is love other than romantic love.

Sara:

Yes, I agree. But they are not in love with each other.

Lilly:

Yes, I agree with that. But if we wanted to talk about normalizing like non-romantic relationships, I actually got the sense that they would absolutely love each other. Not in a sexual way at all, just in like a, like true partners. I think they would be like a great partnership.

Sara:

Yes. Yes.

Lilly:

there's not,

Sara:

with you there.

Lilly:

there's not verbiage for that as far as like what kind of story is this. And so it deals with the relationships between people. It deals with longing and there is a hint of romance. I'll see, but now I'm using the word, you can't use the word in your definition of the word, which just shows that my argument is bad

Sara:

I mean, I, I do see your point. And I think that you make some valid points because there is a, I mean, like, there, there is a deep friendship and, and friendship can be love.

Lilly:

or at least the potential for one, they meet that

Sara:

Yeah. Okay. There, we, we get the impression that there is definitely the potential for a, a deep and abiding friendship or platonic love. I think it's just that the problem is that the English language, so often associates love with romance unless it's, unless it's in the context of a familial relationship.

Lilly:

well,

Sara:

is neither.

Lilly:

it, yeah, absolutely. And then we're kind of getting back into my like, oh, it's usual to see physical affection for cats, but it's weird if the cats can talk or not even if the cat actually, yeah. Kind of in, this is a tangent, but in Balders Gate three, there's a character who has a NPC friend who is a talking cat. And it is kind of weird like. It's like you're scratching her on her little chin while she's having a conversation with you about your life choices. Like what's happening, anyway, it, it is like this collection challenges your concept of affection, and I love that, like in a, in a really sweet way.

Sara:

I would push back on that very gently. I think it maybe challenges your view of affection if you have a very heteronormative mainstream societal view of it,

Lilly:

Okay.

Sara:

Because it, I didn't feel like it challenged my views of affection.

Lilly:

you okay? Fine.

Sara:

I mean, you're welcome to argue with me about that.

Lilly:

No, I mean, I. I think we're getting back into the unusual to see versus bad or wrong, and having those be two different things. I would still, but it's not worth re-litigating, if it, it's trying to normalize something. Doesn't that imply that it is not currently normal?

Sara:

Right. I'm not, I'm not saying that it's not currently normal. I'm just saying that if like there are, there are people out there who view life differently and so it's not challenging those views for those people.

Lilly:

Yeah. But even then you don't read it and go like, Hey, yeah, this is better than what normally happens.

Sara:

No, because it, I just like, for me personally, because that is how I interact with the world, like it's normal.

Lilly:

Fascinating.

Sara:

Like I acknowledge that people don't view it the same way, but I do.

Lilly:

Right. And so there's no part of you that's like, Hey, nice. I'm glad to get this representation.

Sara:

no, like I, I am, but I'm saying that just because I feel like that doesn't mean that I feel like it's challenging my views of, of physical affection.

Lilly:

Okay. Challenging views is, was maybe strong. Yeah. Okay. I'm like, I'm not, I'm not trying to argue against you that it's good.

Sara:

No, and I don't, I don't think you are to be, to be clear

Lilly:

Okay.

Sara:

like you are. You are very definitely saying it is good and it is nice to see like there's, there's no, like, yeah, we're not, we're not arguing about that.

Lilly:

It, it just feels like by pointing out that it is not typical, I am therefore calling it bad, which is like, not what I'm trying to do.

Sara:

No. No, I didn't. And I don't think that that's, that was, that was never the implication that I was getting from what you were saying.

Lilly:

good, good, good. Okay.

Sara:

Yeah. Not, not at all. No, no. I, I do not, to be clear, I do not think you, at any point you have called the representation of affection in this book bad, or, or the way in which it is expressed.

Lilly:

I just, I think it's worth pointing out that she is doing something exceptional and applauding her for that instead of just going, ah, yes, that's how it should be. Therefore we're gonna move on and not mention it at all.

Sara:

No, I, and again, I agree with you there. I, it is really nice to see this representation. And again, she's very explicit that she wants this to be a very inclusive world. And I love that, and I love how that is portrayed.

Lilly:

And I will capitulate because romance as a genre label is so closely associated with sex. While I think it would be fun to vague that shit up. I think instead calling this romance would just kind of subvert it in an unfun way.

Sara:

Well, but also like I, I agree. We should, we should vague it up.

Lilly:

Which 1:00 AM I trivializing, right? If I call this romance, am I trivializing things the wrong way or the good way?

Sara:

I just, I just think that if you call it a romance, it, it does trivialize the fact that you can have these deep platonic loves

Lilly:

Instead of trivializing the importance of sex to romance?

Sara:

Yes,

Lilly:

Which would I would be the intention. Yeah. Alright, well we have to come up with another name for it then. It's like the situationship of relationship labels.

Sara:

We just, we just need a good word for like, friend stories.

Lilly:

But like not in a boring way.

Sara:

Yeah.

Lilly:

Oh, man. Speaking of the relationships in that first story, the first one was my favorite, I think is maybe obvious for how much time we've spent talking about

Sara:

it was, it was also my favorite. I really wanted like a continuation of it. I just, I want more of the relationship. I want more of the, the whole profit stuff. I want more of the world. I just want more of everything.

Lilly:

Finding out that there is a collection, the Cinderella retelling, featuring RAHA is very exciting for me.

Sara:

I am actually going to go and buy that wine graph. I might be mispronouncing it, but Wine Graph is a Cozy Fantasy magazine. And this is from the Valentine's Day 2024 special. It is 2 99 on Kindle.

Lilly:

And I'm gonna say this and after my entire rant about defining this, this story as romance is gonna just dig my hole deeper. But I'm so excited to read a romance By Strong. Her use of interpersonal relationships and exploration of them was so compelling. And I am a junkie for romance.

Sara:

Yes. And people contain multitudes.

Lilly:

Yeah. I can be a junkie for romance and still really enjoy the platonic relationship explorations.

Sara:

Just like I can be a junkie for the platonic relationships and still enjoy a romance.

Lilly:

Yes. There was even a character in this story, elder Suela who I was like, ready to tear apart, and I knew that you were gonna defend her because it's just a, like a topic that I'm extra touchy about. The nosy, overbearing relative, like, doesn't work for me. Just like in general

Sara:

I mean, she was nosy and overbearing. I wouldn't have defended her that much.

Lilly:

you might have just to argue, but we got our arguing out early.

Sara:

Yeah, it's true. If you had asked me earlier in this episode, okay, maybe.

Lilly:

But also I introduce that only to say she totally redeems herself at the end. Like she gives Raha such a hard time about basically,

Sara:

he is been talking about nausea and her sister for a long time because he's, he's a prophet. He's seen them in his dreams and she is, you know, ribbing him about, ooh, these are the women of your dreams. You know, you're gonna marry them and, and,

Lilly:

We will start building his harem, which at, on my tangent that I was on, was gonna sound flippant, but no, that's actually what she was recommending he do.

Sara:

Yes.

Lilly:

And so like nausea accidentally outs him and it's kind of a whole thing and they're like, oh fuck. Hyla is going to like tell everyone'cause she's such a gossip. And I was so geared up and ready to be so angry. But then it turns out that she does have t. And was using her powers of gossip for good and like, oh, Nara took a book out of her hand and therefore he can't marry her. And like going on and on about it. And it was very sweet. And I was like, okay. That kind of nosy, pushy, relative I can get behind.

Sara:

Yeah, I, I agree with you. She wasn't my favorite to start with, but I liked her by the end. She shows growth or,

Lilly:

Yeah. Or not growth, but we saw another side of

Sara:

yes. Yes.

Lilly:

It's all fun and games until shit hits the fan, which I, I mean that's kind of dramatic, but I think Nara mentions that, like he had not come out to anyone. So to be outed like that is pretty not great,

Sara:

Yeah.

Lilly:

imagine.

Sara:

I mean, it, they have a, a very difficult conversation where no one really communicates well with each other.

Lilly:

It's unclear in this world where queer relationships are in the norms.

Sara:

My guess, just from everything else that we see is that queer relationships are totally fine.

Lilly:

Oh, and it, it, Raha does kind of mention that he assumes he needs to beget heirs, which is why it would be a big deal. So it's more specific to his station and less the society in this world.

Sara:

Yeah.

Lilly:

Okay. So a little bit in his head also, maybe. Well, Nara thinks so.

Sara:

I mean, I, I believe nausea in this case.

Lilly:

I would believe anything Nara told me

Sara:

Yeah. Actually,

Lilly:

I loved her so much.

Sara:

this is why I want to read more of her.

Lilly:

I know it's true. The fact that the, the additional story is about raha, although it's. From what we know. Probably after he's met Nadra, I bet she's in it.

Sara:

Well, the, the additional story is several years after the Prince of Her Dreams.

Lilly:

you got all the background info. Thank you.

Sara:

I looked at the website, I looked at Strong's website,

Lilly:

I know I'm sitting here having a conversation with you. Eye to eye. Face to face.

Sara:

and here I am being rude and, and reading other things. Look, these stories are just so compelling. I can't help it.

Lilly:

Yeah, that's fair. It's fair. I don't blame you.

Sara:

I am almost regretful that this story was the first story in the collection though, because I just kept wanting to go back to it.

Lilly:

It was my favorite.

Sara:

Yeah, and I, I feel bad. I mean, I've really enjoyed the second and third story. As well. Like they were both fantastic, but the first one was like, I loved it so much and wanted to keep reading so much that the fact that the next two did not involve those characters was a little bit of a letdown. And I, I felt guilty for feeling that way'cause they were both very good.

Lilly:

I definitely felt that way for the first half of Priya's story. Priya is a kitten who is fed by some, like, I don't, it's so hard we don't have words for these things because we don't have half cat, half people, people. It's not a like animal shelter. It's

Sara:

just like a school,

Lilly:

I guess

Sara:

I mean, nominally,

Lilly:

street urchins.

Sara:

yeah, nominally it's a school for people, but they, they take cat people too.

Lilly:

Yeah.

Sara:

And then there's also the bathhouse.

Lilly:

there's the bathhouse and then there's the shrine to woo. I'm gonna say Arja, but I don't have it in front of me, and sure. I remembered it

Sara:

It is, it is like up, I don't know the

Lilly:

Oh, I, looking at her story is not gonna help me because she's a cat. And a cat's not gonna tell me the name of the shrine because she doesn't know or really care that much. Uja.

Sara:

Yes.

Lilly:

And UJAs Shrine, like their whole thing is just feeding people. It's like a, a religion around community and, food resources is nice.

Sara:

It is lovely.

Lilly:

I like, I love that concept. I

Sara:

agreed.

Lilly:

but she's still a cat and so she wants to hunt pigeons so she can contribute, but she's just a baby.

Sara:

She is a little kitten and she has trouble interacting with not the world, but like the people around her because she doesn't have the vocabulary and the language skills and words come out, you know, mixed up when she tries to save them. So she has a lot of, I think, insecurity around that.

Lilly:

this was the story that made me cry out of the three of them. I don't know if, if you hit that point with anything.

Sara:

I didn't cry for any of these stories, but I was also reading them in stolen moments, you know, when my friend was over. So

Lilly:

Fair. The moment that Maur, who is the priest of uja and he is one of the people that Priya like visits on her rounds, if, if we use the analogy of a neighborhood cat, which she's not'cause she's people. But when led her tells her that her worth is not dependent on productivity and contribution that she has worth, just because she exists. That was like, oh, got me.

Sara:

that was, that was a lovely scene. I, I agree that it was a good scene.

Lilly:

Mm-hmm. Yeah. I don't know. I cry pretty easy. So maybe the bar is low,

Sara:

I mean, I do, I do too. And I'm sure that if I had been reading this book in ideal circumstances, I, I probably would've cried.

Lilly:

speaking of cats, hello? Are you gonna say hello or are you gonna hide

Sara:

is that a Bard or a sif?

Lilly:

a little? Si. She's the Priya reminded me of CIF only'cause they're spicy. Oh, so the, the first half of that story, I was like, this is a lot of world building. I'm not super engaged. But honestly, again, relationships after Priya gets injured on a hunt by accident, the cat that accidentally injured her is like, oh no. And like his protectiveness of her and like making sure that she gets taken care of and but also not being overbearing, like after she has been tended to by a healer, she says she's gonna go to the Bastet temple and he's like, okay, I won't like hang out, but I am just gonna walk in that direction. It's very sweet.

Sara:

Yeah,

Lilly:

I want their, like, I want their platonic relationship story.

Sara:

I want, I want that too. I, I want Nara and Rahs more, but like, I still want that.

Lilly:

Yeah,

Sara:

I mean, I would happily read a full length story about Priya two, no question.

Lilly:

I did love getting more of the Pantheon and again, more of how the world works in the third story, but I think that was the one that I was the least into.

Sara:

I would say that I liked it about the same level as I liked Priya's story because there's so much description of food and the importance of feeding your community, and it just, it just hit, I liked it.

Lilly:

I liked it, like, I mean, I enjoyed all of them.

Sara:

Yeah. None of none of them were bad. They were all good.

Lilly:

I'm really glad that Priya's story came first, because I think all of the characters in Potter's Dream were introduced in Priya, and I needed that context and character building. I don't think I would have engaged with the story at all with just the content of Potter's Dream.

Sara:

I would've still liked the story, but I agreed that it, it really helped to have that context to build off of.

Lilly:

I mean, even just mud her, in prea of the story prea about the kitten named Priya, not inside the kitten prea, I'm so distracted'cause my cat is sitting here. I have to pet her while I'm talking about this.

Sara:

It is distracting.

Lilly:

I'm so glad that I got that information about Mod Horror, him being so sweet to Priya and seeing that introduction of his character so that when we get Potter's Dream, which I would say is about Madura, I already had all that backstory. I was like engaged from page one.

Sara:

Well, and, and also just getting more context about his relationship with the bathhouse owner, who also features heavily in the third story Potter's Dream. Like I, I agree it was important. I think that I still would've liked the story even without that context, but it definitely helped my enjoyment of it.

Lilly:

Yeah.

Sara:

So I like you. I am glad that. Priya's story came first.

Lilly:

I dunno, just overall being a cat person reading this with my cats, it hits, I don't know, I shouldn't say it hits different, but I have to assume it does.

Sara:

it probably does.

Lilly:

I mean, it's cozy and warm, but like, I don't, it was just so good.

Sara:

I

Lilly:

It was good without it. I, but

Sara:

yeah, it was, it was definitely good without it, but I agree there probably is something special about reading it with your cats because cats feature heavily, like it's, it's not, you don't need that to make this enjoyable, but it adds that extra like flavor.

Lilly:

I actually wonder, honestly. Well, and you can tell me if my assumptions are correct, it's pets in general. What if pets were little people and Yeah, the cats do have some personality quirks overall that dogs don't have. But in general, I don't know, especially Priya's section, I could see that being a rambunctious puppy.

Sara:

I think there are left less differences between cats and dogs in terms of characters and. Stereotypes make out,

Lilly:

Right. Like I would say out of my two pets, one of them is a cat and one of them is a dog. Even though they're both felines.

Sara:

and Mr. Squeak definitely has cat problems. So,

Lilly:

I, I think it, I personally have definitely latched onto the cat aspects, but if you're a pet person, you are like animals, it's gonna be nice.

Sara:

yeah, I, I mean, it's just, it's just a good set of stories. You don't have to be an animal person to enjoy them. Obviously, if you are an animal person, there's that extra layer of, there are a lot of cats in this, and that's delightful, but you're gonna like it anyway, as long as you want a cozy, inclusive fantasy story.

Lilly:

Absolutely. I agree completely.

Sara:

Because Strong is just so good at making these characters just feel like characters,

Lilly:

I was gonna say feel human, but like literally wrong.

Sara:

feel like people.

Lilly:

Yeah. There we go. And you are a people, aren't you? Yeah. She made a face. I'm gonna leave all the cat talk in. Yay. You did, you pur directly into the microphone for me, please. All right, fine. thank you for listening to this episode of Fiction Fans.

Sara:

Come disagree with us. We're on Blue Sky and Instagram at Fiction Fans Pod. You can also email us at Fiction fans pod@gmail.com or leave a comment on our YouTube page. Page channel YouTube channel,

Lilly:

you actually leave the comments on each video,

Sara:

YouTube,

Lilly:

on the channel

Sara:

YouTube video.

Lilly:

That's why it just says on YouTube. Specifically, if you enjoyed the episode, please rate and review on Spotify and Apple Podcasts and follow us wherever your podcasts live. I.

Sara:

We also have a Patreon where you can support us and find exclusive episodes and a lot of other nonsense.

Lilly:

Thanks again for listening, and may your villains always be defeated. Bye.