From These Dark Abodes by Lyndsie Manusos

Your hosts talk about skeletons, mythology, and what makes a horror story in Lyndsie Mansusos’ debut novella, From These Dark Abodes. Yes, Lilly made them watch Spooky Scary Skeletons before they started recording.


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Transcript

Lilly 0:01

Hello and welcome to Fiction Fans, a podcast where we read books and other words, too. I'm Lily,

Sara 0:07

And I'm Sarah.

Lilly 0:08

and tonight we'll be discussing From Those Dark From From These Dark Abode Nope, I still also need the author's name.

Sara 0:18

Lindsay Minusos.

Lilly 0:19

Thank you. From These Dark Abodes by Lindsay Manussos. But first, what's something great that happened recently?

Sara 0:27

I got to actually do a little bit of coding today, which was fun because I've spent the last, like, four or five months knee deep in the minutiae of a particular SQL query which has been. miserable, so it was fun to do something. Not that!

Lilly 0:51

Sounds like it. I'm glad Does that mean you're kind of done with that then, and you can move on in your work life, or are you gonna have to go back to it?

Sara 0:58

What it means is that I couldn't get it working, no one could get it working so I gave up. But it is, it is, it is still a ticket that I would like to solve at some point, if that ever is possible.

Lilly 1:16

My fingers are crossed for you. We harvested three beautiful bouncing baby pumpkins from our garden this week. They are the only three we're going to get. We planted three pumpkin plants and got three pumpkins. One from each. They're maybe two fists, a little bit bigger than that. Not very big. I do think they're the eating kind, but I don't remember. I got them a very long time ago. And they're all the goofiest shapes. I love it.

Sara 1:49

I mean, at the very least they're decorative, regardless of whether or not you eat them.

Lilly 1:53

Yes. Oh, I'm gonna eat them before they go bad, even if it's a mistake. I'm not gonna not eat something I grew. What are you drinking tonight?

Sara 2:02

In deference to From These Dark Abodes, I have a small thimble full of brandy. And in deference to The Ninety Degree Heat Outside, I have a cold cider.

Lilly 2:15

The best of both worlds. I also got brandy because there's a lot of brandy in this book.

Sara 2:22

There is a lot of brandy in this book. Also, boy, this is terrible brandy.

Lilly 2:26

I also have terrible brandy.

Sara 2:28

I'm, I'm pretty sure, so I, This is from a, not to interrupt you, which I realize I'm doing. Sorry. I know everyone's desperate to hear about my terrible brandy. It's from a mason jar I had in my house. I'm pretty sure that it comes from brandy that is sold in a plastic jug in very large quantities that I use to make to make vanilla extract. So not actually something enjoyable to drink. That

Lilly 3:01

that's the intention for the brandy I purchased as well. But Safeway only has two price points, and it was 12 or 80, and I was not going to spend 80 for being able to say, I'm drinking brandy. So I got the very cheap stuff. I thought, well, if I mix it with something, maybe it will taste better. So I found a recipe, it was called a Bacchanalia, which I thought was also very fitting. A, A for the fun revelries, fun, for some people, fun revelries in this novella. And B for the Greco Roman mythology reference. So, appropriate, up and down, every way. Doesn't taste that much better.

Sara 3:48

What else is in there besides terrible brandy?

Lilly 3:52

Red wine, honey, and lemon juice. A

Sara 3:56

okay, that, that does not sound like a good recipe.

Lilly 4:00

I

Sara 4:01

be honest.

Lilly 4:02

think it is a good concept, and if I had used good brandy it would taste fine, or decent brandy, but the red wine and the honey and the lemon juice do not cover up the bad brandy.

Sara 4:14

I just, none of those things feel like they go together.

Lilly 4:19

I mean sangria, sweet red wine with fruit in it.

Sara 4:23

yeah, but I'm not, I'm not pouring sangria. Or lemon juice, I'm putting lemon slices in maybe. But.

Lilly 4:32

Same, okay, you're saying that if it was a lemon slice, that would be fine? No, that's the same flavor profile.

Sara 4:38

But

Lilly 4:38

It, the lemon is probably the best part. The honey is because I didn't have agave, which is what the recipe actually called for.

Sara 4:45

Mmm,

Lilly 4:46

But I don't think that'd be I was supposed to sweeten it. Whatever. Anyway, I have made my bed and will now drink it.

Sara 4:55

I'm, I'm sorry. That's not a

Lilly 4:58

want to like it. It kind of tastes like medicine. I want to like it. I don't.

Sara 5:05

That's very unfortunate.

Lilly 5:07

Oh well. you read anything good lately that we are not about to discuss at length?

Sara 5:13

I started reading The Mimicking of Known Successes by Malka Older, which is a sci fi, I think it's novella given that I'm on Chapter 4 and I'm 21 percent of the way through, according to my Kindle app. It's I guess maybe a little bit cozy murder mystery solving. I'm not really far enough into it to tell you if that's for sure the plot, but very, very vibey so far.

Lilly 5:45

Nice.

Sara 5:46

I'm enjoying it.

Lilly 5:47

reading some solstitious submissions. Technically counts. And some work that a

Sara 5:54

Excellent thing to be reading.

Lilly 5:57

So, nothing that I'm going to discuss at length in the moment, but I have actually been reading and I wanted to brag about it.

Sara 6:05

That's always a nice feeling.

Lilly 6:07

So, speaking of vibes, from these dark abodes, amazing. Perfect. It's creepy, it's fall, there's skeletons, I did just make li Wow, I almost called you by my name.

Sara 6:23

I mean, we have, we have been accused of being the same person before, but

Lilly 6:27

It's getting to me. I did just make Sarah listen to the entirety of the Spooky Scary Skeletons song, just to get us in the mood.

Sara 6:37

Which really does feel like an accurate representation of some of the skeleton shenanigans in this book.

Lilly 6:46

It's a little more whimsical. I would say the skeleton shenanigans in this book are more edgy and sexy.

Sara 6:55

Yes.

Lilly 6:56

brandy on each other and interlacing their bones and meh.

Sara 7:01

Yes. I actually really enjoyed this book.

Lilly 7:06

Incredible.

Sara 7:07

Yes, I'm, I'm very pleased that we had a Spooky Season book that I really liked. I was not expecting that.

Lilly 7:17

I should have known anything with bones would be good for you.

Sara 7:20

It's true. I, like, I just, I really like Bones, and this was not really what I would call scary. Like, it was atmospheric and I get why It would maybe be considered, it's, I wouldn't call it horror, but it's definitely spooky, right?

Lilly 7:41

Yeah, I am sort of on the same page as you. It's graphic. It's ooey gooey. There are some pretty detailed descriptions of people unzipping their skins and, like, glooping out of them. I

Sara 8:01

Heh

Lilly 8:02

the beginning called it body horror, and I'm very curious If that's referring to those unzipping scenes or the lengthy discussion of feeling trapped and un unright? Is that a word? Incorrect in your body and wanting to escape it and not being able to. That sort of Gosh, I can I never remember which one's which between dysphoric and dysmorphic. One of those. That kind of body horror, I think, pushes this truly into horror for me, just because of that, the dread and the inescapability of it. Similarly, our two main characters, Le are we going with Lethe? Lethe? Lethe. Lethe. Lethe?

Sara 9:04

I will follow your lead in this, because you're the one saying her name first.

Lilly 9:10

Well, my excuse is that no one knows how to pronounce ancient Greek, right? Right? Lethe and Petunia are similarly also trapped in this Spooky house? Oh, spooky magic house? Very atmospheric. Maybe too awesome to be horror?

Sara 9:28

Yeah, I'd like, honestly, it seemed there's the conservatory where it's always raining. There's the library or the, the piano room where it's always sunny. There's the library. Like, yeah, you have to clean up after some spooky skeletons. But. And they, to be fair, they didn't seem like very nice people even when they were non skeletal. But it just seemed like a really cool house.

Lilly 9:56

I, okay, I wasn't gonna go so far as they should've enjoyed being there because the group of immortals, the people who shed their skin and dance around as skeletons every night, We're just constantly harassing

Sara 10:11

Oh, yeah, I

Lilly 10:12

physically, mentally, emotionally.

Sara 10:15

I don't, to be, to be clear, I am not saying they should have enjoyed their time there. Like, it is very understandable why they didn't. I'm just saying, the house was pretty cool, and As a reader who is not in that situation, I appreciated it.

Lilly 10:32

See, if I had been Arrhenius, who was the master of the house, then A, it would have been a better time for everyone because I'm a nicer person than Arrhenius is. And then it would have been a great house to be in. Speaking of these names that I'm probably butchering, there's a lot of really fun mythology, like, little easter eggs in here.

Sara 10:56

There was,

Lilly 10:57

even if I don't know how to pronounce them.

Sara 10:59

well, the good thing about reading a book, not so much about having a book podcast where you have to talk about said book, but the good thing about reading a book is you don't actually have to pronounce things out loud until you get to the podcast part. I, there's, there's a thing that I want to say that's very much a spoiler, so I'm not going to say it. yet along the lines of the mythology in this book. But yes, I, I really enjoyed it and it, it came to play in ways that I wasn't expecting which was also fun.

Lilly 11:31

yes, absolutely. Oh, I was gonna say about Lethe and Petunia, though, they are also trapped in this house. And that dread, the inescapability of it, the awful situation they're in, and then also being taunted by being told it was their choice, just the cherry on top, that, I think, also helps push it into true horror for me. It's weird because there,

Sara 12:01

no, continue on.

Lilly 12:03

it's weird because there was ooey gooey gore, but that was not the horror element, in my opinion.

Sara 12:10

I think that for me the ooey gooey gore and The way that Petunia and Lethe are trapped, and as you say, taunted about it do make it horror, but because of just, like, the atmospheric writing, it, it went back to spooky vibes that I really enjoyed.

Lilly 12:39

You can't declare that it's not horror just because you liked it. I

Sara 12:43

No, I'm

Lilly 12:43

think, I

Sara 12:46

I'm, I'm not.

Lilly 12:48

was it horror.

Sara 12:49

Okay, I guess, I guess maybe that is kind of what my argument boils down to. But it just like it didn't, how to, how to phrase it. I was able to remove myself from the horror and so it, it felt atmospheric rather, rather than like,

Lilly 13:08

It wasn't immediate, yeah. There is always that aspect when it comes to fantasy or, yeah,

Sara 13:20

it was, it was very lush. Which is, which is not something that I tend to associate with a lot of horror novels, or

Lilly 13:32

it made it feel kind of gothic to me in that way. Because it was so location dependent, and, I mean, just, the image of a decaying mansion, I mean.

Sara 13:44

Yes,

Lilly 13:45

If that's not gothic, what is?

Sara 13:47

it felt very gothic, I agree.

Lilly 13:50

I don't remember what I was, oh! I was gonna say about genre. There is a line with, I'm gonna call it genre horror, right? Because horror can be in any other genre, right?

Sara 14:04

Right.

Lilly 14:05

If you get too abstract with it, It makes it less, oh god, that could happen to me. Which, I think in this case, you are finding a bonus, because it made it less scary to read. But that also means it is less scary, because you're like, well, I'm not trapped in a mansion with a bunch of immortals who take their skin off, so.

Sara 14:31

But I, I think also you could make this no, scratch that. Nevermind. I take it all back.

Lilly 14:40

That's not to say that you can't be scared by a situation that doesn't apply to you. I just think that there is a, an extra layer. That. It adds a layer when you're, you don't relate to the situation as much.

Sara 14:56

Yeah, I would agree with that. And that probably does add to why I enjoyed it so much. Because I, I don't like the immediacy of a lot of horror. Even if I know that, that something like that is never going to happen to me. And like a horror movie or a horror novel there is still a higher chance that it could.

Lilly 15:22

Yeah. The ones that make you scared in your own home, right, that's a very different experience than this is a scary concept and these characters are going through a bad time. But that's not me going through a bad time.

Sara 15:39

Yes, but also, I just, I just like bones.

Lilly 15:42

You like bones. And there were some fun velvet dresses in this book. A fun velvet dress. Okay, there was one fun velvet dress in this book.

Sara 15:51

There was a lot of fashion, actually, because all of the people, when they were not being skeletons, had had fancy outfits.

Lilly 16:02

did make me want to party with the skeletons a little bit.

Sara 16:05

I don't know if I wanted to party with them because it sounded a little too Orgiastic for me.

Lilly 16:12

They were only bones though, Sarah.

Sara 16:14

right, but

Lilly 16:16

No, it was

Sara 16:17

not into that.

Lilly 16:18

right. It was definitely sexual. In Could even say they were boning.

Sara 16:25

That's it you're you're canceled from the podcast

Lilly 16:28

Can't cancel me for a pun.

Sara 16:31

no, especially because I love a bad pun.

Lilly 16:33

Yeah!

Sara 16:35

that's it, you're promoted.

Lilly 16:36

All right, did we find a horror novel for the non horror fans? Maybe. If you like bones and gothic vibes and want to read this while you're in a library in the rain.

Sara 16:49

yes, if you, if you like something that's spooky and atmospheric, this is a good novella for you.

Lilly 16:57

There's also some very tender longing between Lethe and Petunia.

Sara 17:01

There's a lot of longing. Yes, if you, if you want to read longing,

Lilly 17:06

Specifically longing,

Sara 17:08

yes, very specifically longing.

Lilly 17:11

which is trailing awful close to spoilers, so maybe we should go over there. this episode of Fiction Fans is brought to you by Fiction Fans.

Sara 17:24

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Lilly 17:32

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Sara 17:40

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Lilly 17:50

It away.

Sara 17:52

Okay, so, going back to your comment about mythology, I

Lilly 17:57

Easter eggs, but that's because it was the non spoiler section.

Sara 18:01

I absolutely fucking loved that Lethe turned out to be an actual river. I was expecting Minusos to do something with her name because how could you not? Like, I would have been really disappointed if, if it had turned out to be a nothing burger. But,

Lilly 18:19

a character with no memories Lethe. Like, she already did something from

Sara 18:24

Well, okay. I was, I was expecting there to be a little bit more than just

Lilly 18:29

Yeah,

Sara 18:30

but I wasn't expecting her to be an actual river, like the actual river. And that was just, I loved it. It was perfect.

Lilly 18:42

I also was like, okay, Erenys, the, that's the revenge ones, right? Revenge, but like in a justicy way.

Sara 18:51

I think that they're the Furies.

Lilly 18:54

Yeah, and they get revenge in a justicy way,

Sara 18:57

Do the Furies get justice y revenge?

Lilly 19:01

I'm pretty sure they do. That's like if, if a man beat his wife, the Furies might go after him.

Sara 19:07

I, yeah. I just remembered the revenge bits.

Lilly 19:11

Okay,

Sara 19:11

not the justice y bits, but.

Lilly 19:14

I guess revenge from a from a celestial standpoint, not like one Samrando could, like, I curse you with revenge! And, like, the Furies weren't for personal squabbles, they were for revenge on a cosmic level.

Sara 19:28

Right.

Lilly 19:29

Yeah, anyway. So I was like, okay, neat. She's the awful mistress. So what did Lethe do to deserve this? Right, it was where my head was at.

Sara 19:38

Mm hmm. Mm

Lilly 19:39

I assumed it was allegorical in nature. And then like you, absolutely delighted. Yeah, and then they're like, oh, Lethe and Petunia, and Petunia has some memories, but Lethe has none, and I was like, oh, gee. I guess I know why she named her Lethe. Nope.

Sara 20:00

Nope. Nope.

Lilly 20:02

She did the fucking thing. It was great.

Sara 20:05

Yeah, like, I think that's the thing, right? If it had just been that Lethe had no memories, that's low hanging fruit. And so the fact that there was something more, and it was this something, was excellent. I loved it.

Lilly 20:24

So it's implied that the other immortals, the skeletal partygoers, occasionally skeletal partygoers, are also mythological figures. Mm hmm. I did not bother to look up who they are, but I assume they're real ones.

Sara 20:43

I also did not actually look up who they were.

Lilly 20:46

cool, cool, cool. Good conversation.

Sara 20:49

Yeah, that, that would involve research and actually, you know, investigating things and we don't do that for this podcast. This is not that kind of podcast.

Lilly 20:59

I love the idea, though, that these Greek mythology figures had said, we're gonna make our own underworld with blackjack and hookers and skeletons and brandy. So they do, they make this weird little bubble universe. And then other underworld mythological figures from other cultures were like, we also don't want to be underlings anymore, we're gonna come hang out with you guys.

Sara 21:25

I just, it's such a neat concept, right? That these mythological figures are tired of doing. What they're known for in mythology, and they want to retire.

Lilly 21:38

And it's, it's a very poetic setup for a book that is about being trapped in so many different ways, right? we're introduced to Lethe and Petunia who are trapped in this house, and forced to be servants for these people who are awful to them. And then, of course, the joy of dancing as a skeleton is that you are free from your body. And there's a line towards the beginning of the book that I highlighted and wrote a thesis statement. It was like, everyone has a reason for wanting to leave their own body. And I was like, yeah, yeah, some probably more extreme than others, but yeah. Mm

Sara 22:21

Well, and, I mean, they talk a little bit about how Arinya, like, literally bleeds from every pore of her body or whatever, constantly, all the time. So, when that's your physical state, yeah, it makes sense that you want to just be bones.

Lilly 22:40

Well, but also. in a more metaphorical for regular people way too.

Sara 22:45

Well, yes, that, that too.

Lilly 22:48

Well, that's like,

Sara 22:50

Like, it works on multiple levels.

Lilly 22:52

yes, and they're trapped in their roles as these mythological figures and they want change. And then we find out later that they recruited, quote unquote, recruited Petunia, who was just a mortal. She was just a regular lady, but she was going through some sort of postpartum experience and dealing with the effects that having a child had on her body. And so I think that ties it into the more human experiences and less mythological ones really nicely.

Sara 23:28

yes. Petunias is the link between all of that.

Lilly 23:34

I did have one problem with this novella. At one

Sara 23:38

problem?

Lilly 23:40

at one point, Lethe and Petunia are looking for Slováčka, because he goes missing. And they have to go into the cellar, which is like spooky. Don't go down there. Even the skellies don't go down there. And there's a bunch of rats and they find the rats eating his bones. And I'm sorry, rats are precious babies and don't deserve to be scary. How dare?

Sara 24:05

I don't know. I think, I think rats can be precious babies and can also deserve to be scary.

Lilly 24:13

Yeah, I mean, yeah,

Sara 24:15

Those are, those are not opposite statements.

Lilly 24:18

you're right. I think that is a section of the book that didn't work for me personally, because I like rats. And so all of the descriptions of them, like, skidding around and carrying around femurs, I think might have been spookier to a different reader.

Sara 24:38

I mean, I, I don't know, I, I guess that was probably the bit that I found the spookiest in this book. But I don't know if I would say it was that scary. I

Lilly 24:52

conversely, I found Lethe and Petunia huddling together in the back of a closet, just, like, hoping that the revelers don't notice them, so that they can be left alone for a goddamn minute. Alright. And knowing that this was all they had to look forward to for the rest of eternity was the scariest.

Sara 25:16

didn't find that scary in the sense that it didn't, it didn't give me. Like the chills. No, that's not the right way to put it. I think that's the most horrifying Aspect but it wasn't what Scared me

Lilly 25:37

To use the shorthand I've been using, it freaked me out the most.

Sara 25:42

Yeah, yeah

Lilly 25:44

And just that, like, that moment of begging for a respite, and knowing that it's only a matter of time. Like, that dread in that the tension there was very compelling to me.

Sara 25:58

it's such a depressing image, right? Knowing, knowing that you're gonna be there day after day after day doing the same thing and there's no hope no escape it's, it's just Yeah, tragic.

Lilly 26:16

And that's also when we get some of the sweetest moments between Lethe and Petunia. Their relationship was tragic.

Sara 26:26

It was complex. Yeah.

Lilly 26:28

Yeah, it's sad. I mean, gonna say Lethe betrays Petunia in the end, but actually Lethe had betrayed Petunia before the book, but because of memories, it's revealed that it happened at the end. And so that's when it's dealt with.

Sara 26:49

Yeah, I don't, I don't think that Lethe betrays Petunia at the end because it was essentially a different Lethe. You know, it was, it was her before her memories were taken away when she had full knowledge of what she was doing. And The Lethe in the book is dealing with the consequences of her actions, but she wouldn't make that choice again.

Lilly 27:13

Well, it's interesting too, because then at the very end, we have a new Lethe who has both experiences. And is it that Lethe's fault? I would say so, because she remembers doing it the reasoning and all of that. She just also has all of the memories of not having those memories and having it just be her and Petunia against the world. And that, I mean, you're right, it's complex, but also very sad. Because I, like, Lethe loses her, basically, because of that thing that she had done to Petunia. But it wasn't her who had done it. Ugh, it's a lot.

Sara 27:51

But I don't, I, like, I don't think that she would ever have had her, really, because Petunia, even, even before Petunia knows that Lethe is one of the skeletons. Is still longing for her child and, and her life that she had and I don't think that she would ever have really, like, been with Lethe until, or she wouldn't, she wouldn't have been satisfied being with Lethe until she had answers.

Lilly 28:26

In a stable, long term, real world relationship way, I agree with you. In a, they were stuck in a horror novel and had literally no one else but each other. She has Petunia in that sense. Like, they are the only two people in the world, basically. Other than the awful Skellies who torment them all the time.

Sara 28:49

it is the two of them against the world. Yes.

Lilly 28:53

She has her full attention, at least. Even if she doesn't have her heart.

Sara 28:57

Yes.

Lilly 28:59

It does kind of get glossed over. So, Lethe was one of the skellies. She's actually the one who creates the whole house. She had to kidnap Petunia for some reason. It was part of the magic. The book doesn't get into specifics, but I didn't need it to. Yeah,

Sara 29:16

Yeah, it's fine. We don't need to know how it works. It just works.

Lilly 29:20

yeah. But this, I do like that they're just the skellies now. It's true. The people who unzip their skins to dance around as skeletons every night. are so horrible to Lethe when she doesn't have her memories. And then when they realize she has started to get them back, they're, they're horrified. And then when she has them all the way back, they're like, okay, great. You're one of us again. And it's like, no, you were awful to her. How is that just erased now? She still has the memories of you being awful to her.

Sara 29:58

So for me, I read that as they are, they are trying to be nice so that they can, they can gloss their way out of it, right? And Lethe is so, I don't want to say overwhelmed, but like real kind of reeling with the shock of the last like 12 hours that she doesn't have time to address it because this all happens in a very short period of time. And so if they had been in that situation for longer, I suspect it would have been dealt with. But I, like, I, I can kind of understand just going with the flow while you're trying to figure everything out.

Lilly 30:43

I mean, you're right. And it didn't bother me from a storytelling perspective. I would have liked it to be dealt with a little bit more. Like, I would have liked for them to have gotten to the point where it had to be dealt with. Because, you're right, from a character perspective, everyone's actions make sense. It just bothered me deeply. And maybe that is just part of the unsettling nature of this story, where Being stuck in a situation where everyone's acting like it's fine, and you kind of have to go along with it even though it's not fine. It there, it was a lot, and I didn't like it. But that doesn't mean it was bad. I

Sara 31:21

was definitely a lot. I mean, I don't, I don't think that they could have gotten to a point where it was dealt with just given the way that events turn out. Like, right after she gets her memories back, basically the king of the underworld comes a knocking. And they, the, the people who are not part of the Greek pantheon peace out. Cause they're like, we don't want to deal with this. We thought this was a stable place and it's not. So we're going to go find a new one. And Petunia gets put back and doesn't remember anything and has a somewhat happy ever after. So there's not really a time for Lethe to address. The, the, everyone's actions towards her.

Lilly 32:10

mean, that's just because this is a novella, though. Talia could have not stolen Erenyes's power for 24 goddamn hours.

Sara 32:18

That's, that's true.

Lilly 32:20

there's no reason why Talia needed to do that. so immediately, except because the book was almost over.

Sara 32:28

That's true. If it, if it was a novel, yes, there, there maybe could have been space to deal with that. I don't know. I, I feel like it was perfect as a novella. I don't, I don't know if it could have sustained a novel's word count.

Lilly 32:43

No, no, I'm not saying it should have been stretched out into a novel. I'm just saying there could have been one more chapter. The, the, the conclusion, the apex, the confrontation, is there another c word for that that I'm forgetting?

Sara 33:01

Culmination?

Lilly 33:03

Maybe that's it. That didn't have to happen. All at once. It could have been drawn out a little bit. But that's only because that situation made me so upset and I wanted to see some resolution there. And you're not always going to have an emotionally fulfilling ending in a horror story. And that's okay. I am just upset.

Sara 33:24

I don't, I don't think, a Yeah, I don't, conversely, I don't think having that resolution would have been satisfying in, in a, in a horror novel. Like, I really don't think that it would have worked.

Lilly 33:40

counterpoint. Petunia gets an emotional release because she finally stands up for herself. And that was very good. And I liked it quite a bit. I just wanted Lethe to also have one of those.

Sara 33:53

Yeah, but I, I don't know. I, I feel like it makes sense that Lethe doesn't.

Lilly 33:59

Yeah, it does. It just makes me upset. Sarah.

Sara 34:03

Okay.

Lilly 34:03

a horror novel. I am upset.

Sara 34:06

Okay.

Lilly 34:07

That doesn't make it a bad book.

Sara 34:09

Okay. I'll stop trying to argue.

Lilly 34:13

I'm not gonna be less upset just because it was fine writing.

Sara 34:17

I think it was perfect the way it was. It didn't, it didn't need that. But, but

Lilly 34:22

needed it. The book didn't need it. I needed

Sara 34:25

you're allowed to be upset about that.

Lilly 34:28

Speaking of me being upset. Okay, so Petunia gets put back. There's some kind of hand wavy. Her husband suddenly realizes he abandoned her with a newborn, which I guess he didn't figure out before, even though he had. So he's back, gives her some goddamn help. It's sort of implied that she is handling her postpartum situation better.

Sara 34:53

She's less depressed. She has more of a support system. So she actually can deal with, with things.

Lilly 35:02

exactly. She has resources. And then it ends with a knock at the door. Was it Lethe?

Sara 35:09

I mean, it was certainly, Lethe was there in, in some, in some ways. Way.

Lilly 35:15

Yeah, there's kind of like a spooky breeze that we're supposed to think is maybe her,

Sara 35:19

Yes. Yes.

Lilly 35:22

Yeah, that, the, Petunia just being mad at Lethe forever. is also upsetting, but in a way that feels very satisfying.

Sara 35:32

I mean,

Lilly 35:32

explain why that's different.

Sara 35:35

well, but it, it also makes sense because Petunia loses all of her memories of this place. So she can't not be mad at, at Lethe.

Lilly 35:49

Yeah, Sarah, we've gone over this. All of it makes sense. All of the characters are acting perfectly rationally for the world that they are in. Some of it makes me very angry.

Sara 36:00

Okay.

Lilly 36:01

And some of it doesn't.

Sara 36:03

I'll, I'll, I'll stop trying to rationalize things. I'm sorry.

Lilly 36:07

Yeah, no, I mean, you're right. It's a very well done book. The characters are all very consistent. They make choices and take actions that fit into the world that has been built. Some of them are deeply upsetting. And the ones that are, for some reason, don't make sense. Because that's just me, and that's okay. That's not me criticizing the book in any way.

Sara 36:33

Yep, we're, we're allowed, we're allowed to be mad when, when people make decisions in books that we understand, but we don't like.

Lilly 36:42

Yeah. Well, and, yeah, and just not being able to see things. But it's, I mean, that's, life, right? You don't always get the emotional catharsis of confrontation.

Sara 36:55

Yeah, I mean, and, and also things don't always wrap up neatly. Like in, in one sense, this book does. Petunia gets back, everything works out, more or less. Well, for her, anyway. But, there are all of these like you say, confrontations that don't happen, and, and that some, some people, at least, would like to see happen.

Lilly 37:21

I mean, from Petunia's perspective, she has severe postpartum depression, blinks out of existence for maybe eternity, maybe no time at all, goes through some awful experiences, learns to stick up for herself, and then is brought back in the exact moment where she left, and then also everything is better now. And she has no memory of the bad things! So, like, for Petunia, this is a great book. Everything's coming up roses for her. Or Petunia's, I guess I should say.

Sara 37:56

It's a great ending. I wouldn't say it's a great book for her, because she did still have to go through.

Lilly 38:01

But she doesn't remember any of it, so who cares?

Sara 38:04

she doesn't remember any of it, but the Petunia who goes through it cared quite a bit.

Lilly 38:09

Yeah, but, The Petunia Who Lives on Earth, great book.

Sara 38:14

Yes, okay, that's, that's fair. The

Lilly 38:18

all of

Sara 38:18

the Petunia at the end of the book, great book. Petunia at the beginning of the book, not so great book.

Lilly 38:24

and it really is the immortal mythological figures who have it all and have it all yanked away. Interesting.

Sara 38:35

they're back at, where they started, basically.

Lilly 38:38

Except for Rosemary and her crew, they get out.

Sara 38:41

Yeah.

Lilly 38:41

But Erinyes and Lethe, and a couple of them get killed for realsies, it sounds like.

Sara 38:47

Yeah.

Lilly 38:48

Yeah, it was good. It was good. And I think my deep emotional discomfort is why I'm like, no, this is a horror novel though.

Sara 38:58

That, that makes sense. I mean, I, I, I think, I think through this conversation, I agree that it's a horror novel.

Lilly 39:07

it's definitely not on the Clive Barker end of the spectrum.

Sara 39:11

yeah. It's, it's firmly in the horror stories I can tolerate and enjoy spectrum.

Lilly 39:20

No one aspect of it is, like, too overwhelmingly intense, but it has enough of them put together that it is definitely horror.

Sara 39:29

Yeah. And to be fair People who don't like bones and don't like horror maybe wouldn't enjoy this as much. But like, I did, I did work at the Bone Room, so I've got a pretty high bone tolerance.

Lilly 39:46

Be an anthropology nerd. And then you'll like this book. Even if you don't like horror.

Sara 39:53

Yes.

Lilly 39:54

But no, I, like, other than the goopy, ooey gooey skeleton skins, the book is mostly just, like, just, it's not just, gothic and atmospheric. But. That is just a very different reading experience of vibes, but then it does have those Graphic elements. It's just because they're so separate It doesn't feel like they add up against each other, but they do.

Sara 40:22

Yeah, I, I feel, I feel like a lot of the actual horror is emotional,

Lilly 40:29

Mm hmm.

Sara 40:30

In that the characters go through a lot of, like, emotional trauma. But it's not psychological, right? Like it's, it's not the book trying to freak you out. And the, even the ooey gooey bits are not really gory in the sense that it's not violent.

Lilly 40:58

Yeah, oh, that was something I wanted to say. Part of the reason why the skeleton parts aren't scary, in my opinion, is because the act of becoming a skeleton is actually quite empowering for those characters.

Sara 41:10

yes.

Lilly 41:11

Them shedding their skin and becoming skeletons is a triumphant thing. And so, while it is graphic and ooey gooey, in every sense of the word. And it's horrifying for Lethe and Petunia to witness. Like you said, it's not, it's not violent. It's not an aggressive thing.

Sara 41:30

Yeah,

Lilly 41:31

It's just bodies are gross.

Sara 41:33

yeah. Yeah.

Lilly 41:34

The insides are on the outside. Yeah

Sara 41:37

and so I, I think all of that, like, coupled with that really lush gothic atmosphere tempers it a little bit, if that makes sense,

Lilly 41:49

it makes it more bearable. Which I understand.

Sara 41:54

yeah,

Lilly 41:55

I'm so glad we got a book in for spooky month that you didn't hate.

Sara 42:00

I am too I don't actually remember what we read for spooky month last year, but And to be fair, there, there were stories in Sinophasia that I quite liked but they were all, I think a lot spookier than than this. Oh, Skin Thief last year was one of our spooky month books by Susan Palumbo. And I,

Lilly 42:26

spooky.

Sara 42:27

it was spooky, but I did like Skin Thief.

Lilly 42:30

We also read Witch Witch. which is a YA novel as part of our Nostalgia Book Club, and we called that Spooky Month.

Sara 42:37

It,

Lilly 42:38

gave you softballs last year.

Sara 42:41

you did, it, it features, it features witches, so it counts as spooky month. We read Ring Shout by P. Djèlí Clark for spooky month in 2022, and that was really good. So, like, we have, we have done some spooky month books. That I've enjoyed.

Lilly 43:03

Oh yes, sorry, and I wasn't talking about this, this series as a whole, I meant for this year in

Sara 43:08

Oh, for this year in particular, yes. Yes.

Lilly 43:12

Yeah, no, I know, like I said, I usually give you softballs. Not this time or at least not last book

Sara 43:19

But I did, I did quite like this.

Lilly 43:22

Good

Sara 43:22

I think this is Lindsay Manussos first

Lilly 43:26

it

Sara 43:26

novel or novella.

Lilly 43:27

back of it.

Sara 43:29

And I would, I would read more from her.

Lilly 43:32

Absolutely. Yeah, Thank you so much for listening to this episode of fiction fans

Sara 43:40

Come disagree with us. We're on Twitter, BlueSky, Instagram, and TikTok at FictionFansPod. You can also email us at FictionFansPod at gmail. com.

Lilly 43:51

if you enjoyed the episode, please rate and review on Spotify and Apple podcasts and Follow us wherever your podcasts live

Sara 43:59

We also have a Patreon where you can support us and find exclusive episodes and a lot of other nonsense.

Lilly 44:05

Thanks again for listening, and may your skeleton always be defeated. Bye!