Fiction Fans

Orconomics by J. Zachary Pike

• Episode 153

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Your hosts discuss Orconomics by J. Zachary Pike. They talk about fantasy maps, RPG tropes, and the genre that is “adventuring but make it a bureaucratic capitalist hellscape.” There’s also charming goblins, less charming halflings, and a new take on elves.


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Thanks to the following musicians for the use of their songs:

- Amarià for the use of “Sérénade à Notre Dame de Paris”
- Josh Woodward for the use of “Electric Sunrise”

Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 4.0 License


Lilly:

Hello and welcome to Fiction Fans, a podcast where we read books and other words too. I'm Lily.

Sara:

And I'm Sarah.

Lilly:

And tonight we'll be discussing Orcanomics by J. Zachary Pike. But first, what's something good that happened recently?

Sara:

Something good that happened recently is, well, my good thing requires a little bit of context. So back in April,

Lilly:

dawn of the 20th century. You

Sara:

back in April, many, many moons ago, my company laid off about a third of my team. Which was a very bad decision for many reasons, not least of which was they laid off the one person who knew how to do one specific thing. And I kind of took over doing that one specific thing, which I don't know how to do, but it's a work in progress. And then that one specific thing broke because the one guy who was doing it was the only guy keeping it together. Because it was basically held together by two people. Spittin Prayers. And it's been broken for like, a month and a half by now? And I've been struggling to try to get it to be not broken. And I finally, I didn't fix it or at least I didn't fix it all the way, but I finally got it to like two thirds of the way there. So at least runs, even if it doesn't entirely run the way that I want it to. So that was, Very, very good. I did consider breaking out a bottle of champagne to celebrate that, because it has been that stressful and that terrible.

Lilly:

would have earned it.

Sara:

Yes,

Lilly:

did earn it.

Sara:

I did earn it.

Lilly:

it. Yeah. I think. My good thing is going to be very dumb today, which is that apparently it's, I don't know, international, national, whatever the dumb social media holiday is, it's cat day.

Sara:

it is a cat day.

Lilly:

And so

Sara:

your cats what good cats they were?

Lilly:

I, they didn't need me to tell them. They know.

Sara:

You did not post your cats on our Discord for cat day.

Lilly:

I post my cats on Discord every day.

Sara:

Yes, but you should still post your cats on discord for cat day.

Lilly:

Okay, I'll post them for cat day specifically.

Sara:

Yeah,

Lilly:

But I have been hassling them extra, because it's their day, which means I get to poke and prod at them more than usual. Aren't they so lucky?

Sara:

they're so lucky.

Lilly:

What are you drinking tonight?

Sara:

I feel a little bit like I should be quaffing ale.

Lilly:

That's what I said! I asked if we had any Bud Light left in the house, but we do not. Heh

Sara:

actually do have beer in the house for once. But I don't like beer, so I'm not gonna drink it. So I'm drinking cider instead.

Lilly:

very appropriate.

Sara:

I feel it's close enough to ale.

Lilly:

Yeah, I'm drinking red wine, which I bet Laruna and Kaitha drink at some point in this book.

Sara:

I'm pretty sure they do, at the very end. They're in that, like, upscale tavern.

Lilly:

I feel like they sip wine at some point,

Sara:

Yeah.

Lilly:

I'm gonna call it on theme.

Sara:

I think it's on theme.

Lilly:

And have you read anything good lately?

Sara:

I have not done a lot of reading besides podcast reading.

Lilly:

That's fair.

Sara:

Yep. I don't know.

Lilly:

Ditto. So, the very first thing I noticed When I opened this book, before I even started reading it, was that it starts with a map. And that got me thinking, how do other people interact with maps in fantasy novels? I know it's a much beloved topic.

Sara:

It is. I know a lot of people love a good map. I have to admit that I tend not to look at them. I'll look at them maybe at the end of the book. And the e book of Orcanomics does indeed have the map at the end and not the beginning. But until I know the characters and the places, I just kind of don't care about what the topography is like. And even then, I sometimes don't care about what the topography is like, because that's, like, the whole point of the story is to tell it to me.

Lilly:

Yeah, I am very similar. I don't even bother to look at a map until, you know, sometimes if there's a conversation about travel, I'll go, hmm, I wonder where those two places are. I do like a map that will, like, trace. the group's journey on it for you.

Sara:

Mm hmm.

Lilly:

That can be fun. Although I suppose that comes after the story usually, otherwise it would be a spoiler.

Sara:

Could be. Yeah,

Lilly:

time on a map it's usually, if a book like really affected me and I want to just like sit and think about what I just read, sometimes I'll do that like ruminating over the map as a way of like thinking about The journey I just went on, the journey they went on But yeah, I don't know any of these places yet. Why would I look at this thing?

Sara:

like, I, I like fantasy maps as a concept but I do have to admit that I generally don't look at them.

Lilly:

We did ask our Discord, the Fiction Fans Discord, for additional input because we are in fact not the only people with opinions in the entire universe.

Sara:

That sounds false.

Lilly:

And what's not gonna sound false is that the range of answers went everywhere from Why even write a book? All I want is map. To I never look at them. Ever. Ever. Unless it's Lord of the Rings. Which I feel like is probably pretty accurate.

Sara:

Yeah,

Lilly:

The entire range of human emotions.

Sara:

basically, I mean, I feel like from, not that we did a Twitter poll or anything, but I feel like from conversations I have seen on Twitter, more people like a map than are indifferent to them.

Lilly:

Well, I think that's just the nature of being indifferent, right?

Sara:

true.

Lilly:

I did think it was funny. It's Orgonomics, a satire. Did that need to be said? Was J. Zachary Pike really worried someone was going to take this extremely seriously?

Sara:

I mean, it's the internet. I feel like it's kind of understandable.

Lilly:

Yeah, I mean, that's fair. I get it. But it was kind of funny. It was just kind of funny.

Sara:

It is. He just wants to be very clear that you know that it's a satire.

Lilly:

And Orgonomics is, of course, a satire of Would you say fantasy role playing games in general?

Sara:

I would actually argue that it's more a satire of capitalism and, like, corporations and that kind of soul crushing work that uses fantasy role playing as the medium.

Lilly:

That's like a whole ass genre now. I believe this book was first published in 2014. So, it was probably one of the earlier works in that genre. But, The, quote, fantasy adventuring as a bureaucratic capitalistic hellscape, end quote, is, like, a mouthful, but it is a whole ass genre of books.

Sara:

It is, and we have read a couple of them. This is not the only one of, of that genre that we've read. I really enjoy it as a genre.

Lilly:

Now that, I mean, this is the third that I can think of that really, like, fits with that. And it's so interesting, like, what is it about RPGs, role playing games, that makes people go, let's criticize society.

Sara:

Well, I think it makes it really easy, because in fantasy roleplaying games, you have It's very black and white, generally, right? Like, you, the good guys, are adventuring against the bad guys who are the evil races. And, end statement, full stop. But that's not how life is, and so there's a lot of room to play there. Which is

Lilly:

all of the looting that is just inherent in

Sara:

Warcraft.

Lilly:

role playing games. Really quick rundown of acronyms that I'm probably going to abuse. Role playing game, RPG. Do I have to say Dungeons Dragons D& D? I will just in case. TTRPG, tabletop role playing games such as Dungeons Dragons. There are some other ones that are played off of specifically in this book. In World of Warcraft, there's a mode called Player vs. Player, or PvP. where instead of fighting the enemies in the game, players can fight each other, and high level players absolutely pick on low level players.

Sara:

NPC.

Lilly:

Anyway, in this book they say there's the, the highest likelihood of an adventurer, or the, the most common reason an adventurer dies is from professional versus professional PVP. We also have Oh, I forget what it actually stands for in this book. In, yeah, NPC. In games, that would be Non Player Character, which refers to everyone in the world that you're not supposed to kill.

Sara:

Non combatant paper carrier.

Lilly:

NCP?

Sara:

No,

Lilly:

Oh, Non Combatant

Sara:

being one word. Yeah.

Lilly:

Okay. But then you do have, like, oh, quests and grinding. Grinding is a very WoW thing.

Sara:

Is it specifically WoW? I mean,

Lilly:

It's not only WoW, but that's like, the big one.

Sara:

I mean, I've, like, obviously I'm familiar with the term and I don't play WoW, so I just assume have never associated the two, specifically.

Lilly:

World of Warcraft launched in November 2004.

Sara:

Okay, but when did grinding in this context come into use?

Lilly:

I don't know, but 2004 was a long time ago.

Sara:

I always kind of if I had, if I had to associate it with anything it would be What's the, what's the game?

Lilly:

Okay, grinding has been a concept since forever. You're right.

Sara:

yeah.

Lilly:

What's what game?

Sara:

The game Diablo. That's it. If I had to associate it with anything, I would have associated it with Diablo.

Lilly:

Which came out in 96. But apparently the phrase predates that even farther,

Sara:

I'm, I'm sure it does. Like, I think that's just the, One of the oldest games that, of that kind of genre that I've played.

Lilly:

I guess I am just, my slang is of the WoW generation, even if I didn't actually play it that much. Which means I didn't play it at all. If you ask anyone who played WoW and you said, oh, I didn't play it that much, they would just shake their head at you. Or at least that's my experience. You can't dabble. It's all or nothing.

Sara:

I played Warcraft and then it went online and I was like, nope,

Lilly:

Yeah, basically same. Anyway, role playing video games and tabletop games also have the looting component too, right? Like, You're not only running around killing anything that gets in your way, you also take everything that's not nailed down.

Sara:

which is the most fun bit of these games.

Lilly:

And this book nails, er, nails everything. brings up the fact that you're, that often means you're stealing from the people you're supposed to be protecting, which is very funny.

Sara:

Yes. I really enjoy this book and the way that it plays with all of these tropes, I have to say. I

Lilly:

what's the word I'm looking for? Not slapstick, but it was just one in joke after another that were all 100 percent accurate and hilarious, but it took a little while for the plot to really kick in, I

Sara:

think, I think the beginning is a little weaker.

Lilly:

Yeah.

Sara:

It does have a bit of a weak beginning but once it gets going I think that the way that it comes together is very satisfying, even if it goes in places that I don't like which it definitely does.

Lilly:

It, there's a lot going on. I mean, as a certified nerd, I did love all of the references and the, the poking fun at, you know, oh, you need points so you can level up. And just the way of turning that into like a, of, of an in world system instead of a meta, like outside of the world system. And, but then we do actually have our main characters who get recruited for a quest against their will, and then they have to go on a quest, and following them through that, and them like, learning to work together and everything, was a very nice journey.

Sara:

Yeah, and I also like the way that it plays with I mean that, that bureaucratic capitalist hellscape. Because, like, how, how does heroing function? You know, how would, the orcs react to, you know, always being the villains. Like, these are, these are all good questions that organomics kind of starts to tackle.

Lilly:

Yeah, and, you know, the, and then you have the sort of insurance schemes and the like the stock systems and things, where there's the douchebag sitting at the top going, Well I funded that quest, so I get all of the money, and you get ten dollars, and also fuck you, go die in a hole. And so sort of like having that, that plotline of the business owners. The bad, the bad guys, I would say.

Sara:

would say the investment firm.

Lilly:

Yes. There is one trope, not exactly a trope, I'll use the word anyway, that I don't know, I don't know if this book plays with as much as uses to its advantage. But why are halflings automatically charming?

Sara:

I think that's a you thing.

Lilly:

It's not! There's,

Sara:

I don't find them automatically charming.

Lilly:

You didn't feel bad for that guy when he got killed?

Sara:

I mean, I was sad for him, but

Lilly:

Yeah, we know nothing about him except that he's a tafling. It's literally his only characteristic.

Sara:

but you could have told me that he was human or a dwarf or an elf and I would have been equally sad.

Lilly:

Really?

Sara:

Yeah. I don't find I mean, I just Yeah, Halfling, they're fine. But I don't like them any more or any less than I like other, like, races in the D& D world.

Lilly:

Well, that's clearly not the correct answer. I have two theories. Halflings could be automatically charming. I mean, maybe just because of the Lord of the Rings thing. I mean, they are hobbits. That's an option. But then it's also because they are small. And small things are always better than large things.

Sara:

I think this is just a youth thing.

Lilly:

You disagree that small things are automatically cute and better?

Sara:

I don't think they're automatically I think a lot of the times, a lot of the times small things are cute, but it has to be not people related. I don't think small people or children are automatically cute.

Lilly:

Halflings aren't children. That is a false comparison.

Sara:

That's why I said small people or children. Like I don't, if it's human, like it doesn't work for me. But small animals, yes.

Lilly:

yeah, like a miniature pig is cuter than a regular sized pig.

Sara:

Yes, but a halfling is not obviously cuter than a human being.

Lilly:

Oh, see, you lost me. I think that's also why, well, that's not why I loved Glebek so much. I do just have a soft spot for goblins in general. Is it because they're small?

Sara:

Gleebeck is just great. I don't think, I don't think it's necessarily because he's small. Gleebeck is the reason why I wanted you to read this book.

Lilly:

Oh my god, you got me nailed, I will say.

Sara:

I don't always have your reading taste down, but I read this, went goblin. Gotta get Lily to read this.

Lilly:

The book starts out with Gorm, who I'd say is the main character. He's a dwarf. He's sort of a disenfranchised fighter, barbarian, ex hero. And he doesn't bother to kill this goblin, because one goblin isn't a threat and what's the point? And then he sort of accidentally adopts the goblin. Because he refuses to kill him, and then also won't let anyone else kill him either. And that is, really, because of that, the rest of the book happens.

Sara:

Yeah, actually. That is one of the very main inciting incidents.

Lilly:

But Glebek is, oh man, really wonderful little dude.

Sara:

Yeah, I liked Gleebook a lot.

Lilly:

We get some other delightful little typically evil characters. There's some kobolds, orcs, of course. It's called Orgonomics. One fantasy trope that we didn't even get a reference to, though, which I thought was interesting, was the dwarf versus elf racism hatred thing, which is not even brought up. It's a complete non issue.

Sara:

Yeah, it's not there at all. I did like the way, this is, Not entirely related to your statement, but it's about elves, so I'm gonna piggyback off of it. I did like the way that elves, because they live so long they start losing their memory of who they used to be, so they're continuously having to reinvent themselves. I thought that was cool and not something that I'd seen before.

Lilly:

I really loved that. Yeah

Sara:

And sometimes that manifests in the elf very consciously going in cycles, like redoing what they've done. So there's talk about a couple who live in abject poverty, saving up their money so that they can have a big wedding every 10 years or 20 years or whatever it was. And sometimes it results in the elf basically reinventing themselves in other ways.

Lilly:

that was definitely a concept that I haven't seen explored before, and I really liked it. It was a very cool approach.

Sara:

Yeah. I think most of the approaches to the races, I would say, were fairly traditional. Obviously, this book plays with the quote unquote evil races. And how they're just races. But I'd say that the approach to like dwarves and humans and halflings was, was pretty standard otherwise.

Lilly:

Yeah, I'd say so. I mean, it really is relying on the reader recognizing these fantasy tropes.

Sara:

Yes.

Lilly:

And beyond fantasy, fantasy gaming, I would say.

Sara:

Yes. Very, very specifically these role playing games. Whether that's tabletop or video game

Lilly:

And so there, yeah, there's a lot of things that need no introduction, because we know them. And then there's also things that Pike was really able to subvert our expectations with. I don't know. I will say. I can only get into this a little bit, but we're at the point where I ask you who should read this book.

Sara:

so if you want a fantasy D& D setting, a fantasy D& D book that has a lot of humor in it, but I know what your point is going to be and this book does go to some dark places at times. So be, warned. It's not entirely light and fluffy. Then you should read this book.

Lilly:

And also, 99 percent of the book is criticizing capitalism.

Sara:

Yes. Yes.

Lilly:

But the thing I was gonna complain about, not that, that part was great, NOTHING about this prepared me for how intense and, like, kind of upsetting it gets at the end.

Sara:

Did you actually read the back of the book, though?

Lilly:

I read the, like, all of the little quotes and things.

Sara:

to be fair, the back of the book does not necessarily intimate anything that happens at the end, either.

Lilly:

No! Like Orcanomics is hilarious, but remarkably heartfelt. Heartily recommended. A complete joy of a book. I think there's one on the inside. I saw one that also said, like, hilarious or hysterical or something to that effect. All of these are true. None of them prepare you for that turn. And I am a little salty about it. I was not expecting this read to go the way it did.

Sara:

they are all true. They do only tell you a partial story.

Lilly:

And, like, it's good, and it's impactful. Was being surprised by it necessary? I don't know. I think I still would have enjoyed it, and had not been, like, extremely taken aback and had my day ruined.

Sara:

I do think that it kind of telegraphs where it's going.

Lilly:

You know something is up.

Sara:

Yeah, so are we in the spoiler section now? This episode of Fiction Fans is brought to you by Fiction Fans. Fiction Fans.

Lilly:

That's us! We really appreciate our patrons, because otherwise we fund this podcast entirely ourselves.

Sara:

Patrons can find weekly bonus content like our games of Shoot, Screw, or Marry with characters from the books that we've read, monthly exclusive episodes, and biannual zine, Solstitia.

Lilly:

You can find all of that and more at patreon. com slash fictionfanspod. Thank you for all of your support. The remainder of this episode contains spoilers. And I think now we are.

Sara:

Okay, so yeah, at the very end, Gorm and his companions are on a quest to find these, they're called the elven marbles, but they're actually orcish relics. And they're on a quest to find them, and the king of their country has said you can give them either to the orcs or to the elves, you decide, you choose,

Lilly:

Which is obviously a trap, that much is clear.

Sara:

And they decide that they're going to give them to the orcs and the investment firm, has been waiting for this opportunity because they are losing money the money in heroing is down. All of the traditionally evil, like, villains the foes, want to get their non combatant papers so they can become NPCs because they don't want to be killed anymore. And they take this opportunity, they and the king, take this opportunity to say, the orcs stole these marbles. Back from the group. All of the heroes you can go and kill the orcs and loot them and now we've got money back because they were in a very prosperous village. And so this village gets razed to the ground. There's no one left.

Lilly:

So like, I knew something was gonna go wrong, because obviously they were being set up, but I was expecting it to go wrong for the party? For like, Gorm and all of his friends?

Sara:

I mean, it does go wrong for Niln.

Lilly:

Yeah, who cares about him? I wasn't expecting this like, Completely innocent, like, village of families to be brutally murdered.

Sara:

Yeah,

Lilly:

I, I, you're right, the book did telegraph that something was suspicious about all of this. But, I just, nothing about the way the book was presented as a whole made me think it was gonna go there. And, I'm not saying it shouldn't have. It was very good. It was very well done. Like, if it hadn't done that, I think the book would have been silly and, you know, I mean, it is silly. it's on purpose. But you know what I mean.

Sara:

It gives it more of a heart than just silliness.

Lilly:

But I was just so mentally and emotionally unprepared for that, that it was truly upsetting.

Sara:

Yeah, that's fair. I mean, at least we don't see it happen live.

Lilly:

Yeah,

Sara:

That's not much of a consolation. But,

Lilly:

I did, at the very beginning of the book when everything was getting set up, Johan, the hero golden boy, gives Gorm, like, the inside scoop. And I was like, hmm, is this the kind of book where this is exposition? Or is this the kind of book where Johan will have been lying and all of this is actually wrong? So like, yeah, I knew something was going on.

Sara:

But, I mean, to be fair, I think you do have a point. Like, a lot of this book is lighthearted enough that when it does take this very dark turn, It can be very surprising.

Lilly:

Yeah. And also just like the conversations around it all focus on the goofy video game antics and not like, holy shit, let's murder some children. Okay, we did jump straight to the end there, but I felt obligated to warn others that this book is not all silly.

Sara:

no, it touches on some really dark concepts. Which I think makes sense because capitalism.

Lilly:

Well, yeah, I mean, it's true. It wouldn't be making as much of a statement if it didn't go that far. I just wanted some warning and not such antics. Wow. But like, they killed Wiebeck. That was the part that really

Sara:

I, yeah, that just broke my heart. Because. The poor guy. He, I mean, none of them deserved it, but we've spent all this time with Gleebeck, whose actual real name is Tiburin. It's just that he didn't speak the common tongue and Gorm didn't speak Goblin. And so when Tiburin was saying hello, which was Gleebeck Gorm thought that was his name. But to Gorm's credit, once he realizes that it's not, which does take him, you know, three quarters of the book, he immediately switches.

Lilly:

Yeah

Sara:

But we've spent all of this time with Glebek, or Tiburin seeing him learn how to fight, and seeing him and Gorm kind of develop a relationship and you really get to care for him, and then all of a sudden he's dead.

Lilly:

well, or you fall in love with him the first time he shows up with a dead rat and Gorm is like, where did that come from?

Sara:

I mean, he's pretty immediately adorable,

Lilly:

Yeah,

Sara:

but it's harder because you do spend a lot of page time with him. Gorm thinks about his relationship with him a lot.

Lilly:

which was really, I thought, my favorite part of the book. Because while Gorm does start off defending him,

Sara:

It's not because he likes him.

Lilly:

No, it starts off as, well, why bother killing him? And then it's kind of just him being a brat. Like, well, I don't like heroes, so if they want to kill this guy, I'm gonna stop them. It's very much about himself. It's not actually about Tibrin. And then he realizes that by the end, I think not until Tibrin dies. Where he's like, I always thought I was better than you. Well, no, no, it's when they part ways.

Sara:

yeah, I think it's when Tiburin throws himself in front of Niln, who is one of the high scribes of Almatra, and kind of like, he's not the leader of the party, because Gorm is definitely the leader, but he's the one with the purse strings, he's the one who gathered them all together, if he dies, all of the heroes, are basically persona non grata.

Lilly:

He's the chosen one. He's the one who starts the quest for his chosen one quest. That turns out to not be the case, but,

Sara:

he thinks he's the chosen one, but yeah.

Lilly:

I was so sure it was gonna be Gleebeck. Was the actual seventh hero. I was so sure because I was like, okay Yeah, he had to gather the heroes the seventh heroes the chosen one. He hasn't specifically been named the chosen one He's just pretty sure he is and who's the surprise extra person on their journey? Gleebeck slash Tibrin and like how cool would that have been? for a goblin to actually be the chosen one of this like the kind of underdog temple, would have been neat and said he dies. Instead they both die.

Sara:

It would have been neat, but yeah, they do both die. But I think that Gorm really starts reevaluating his relationship with Tiburin when Tiburin throws himself in front of Niln in the Necromancer's tower.

Lilly:

Yeah. He realizes how condescending he's been,

Sara:

Yeah.

Lilly:

because he's always been fairly kind, but that doesn't mean, like, respectful.

Sara:

Right.

Lilly:

Even the first time when Tibrin is starting to learn the common language and explains like, in broken English, but my name is not Gleebic, my name is Tibrin.

Sara:

No, Tiburin doesn't even explain that. That doesn't get explained until it's the translator in the Orcish village.

Lilly:

Well that's when they finally talk. Fucking listen, but there's a moment earlier. Hold on one

Sara:

Well, he tries to explain that his name is Tiburin throughout the entirety of the book.

Lilly:

Yeah,

Sara:

It's just that he's doing it in Goblin.

Lilly:

right and there's a page on page 216 someone says hello Gleebeck, and he says no no hello Gleebeck Tibrin Gleebeck is hello.

Sara:

he does try to explain in the Common Tongue.

Lilly:

That's pretty clear. I mean it's confusing but If they had been even half paying attention, they would have realized he was trying to communicate something.

Sara:

Yes.

Lilly:

And instead, Gorham just goes, Oh, he doesn't actually speak this language yet.

Sara:

Yeah.

Lilly:

is so douchey and dismissive.

Sara:

Absolutely.

Lilly:

And so, like, that's his growth, right? Like, him realizing they're called the Darklings, I think. All of the races that are typically evil. Oh,

Sara:

I think the, the shadow, shadow the versus versus the lightlings.

Lilly:

Lightlings, that's it. Darkling is a different thing.

Sara:

That's, yeah.

Lilly:

That's the hot bad guy in that book series.

Sara:

Yes. That is my trash villain.

Lilly:

Yes, Shadowkin is what I was trying to think of. Yeah, this sort of undercurrent of, hey, Shadowkin are people. Turns out, surprise, surprise, they don't like being murdered. But of course, the capitalist machine doesn't really care and is going to exploit them.

Sara:

the capitalist machine kind of depends on them being murdered.

Lilly:

If they're not getting murdered, they're not making money. So, sorry. What are the chances this series is finished?

Sara:

I'm pretty sure it's a trilogy. I think there's just the three books.

Lilly:

I would want to finish this, I think, if it's only three books.

Sara:

Okay, I was hoping you would say that. I guess the description of the book doesn't

Lilly:

If it's not done, I'm not reading any more.

Sara:

The description of the third book just says it's the thrilling third book. Let me,

Lilly:

I think I was about halfway through this book when I was like, Oh, this did say it was the first book, didn't it?

Sara:

it did, it did.

Lilly:

Guaranteeing the end is not going to be good.

Sara:

Let me see if. So the top review on Amazon calls it a trilogy. Oh, the second review calls it a trilogy too. And the, another one says, this was an amazingly fun conclusion. So I think that it is just three books.

Lilly:

If it's not done, I ain't getting into that.

Sara:

It sounds like it's done.

Lilly:

It better be.

Sara:

It sounds like it's done.

Lilly:

Because I would like to know where it goes. I think The first half of this book was mostly punny hijinks that were for me. I was definitely the target audience. I enjoyed them immensely. But then you get to the back half and it starts getting much more conceptual and the main characters start realizing where they fucked up and it gets, you know, a little more thoughtful and It has hooked me enough to want to know how it concludes, but I don't think it's hooked me enough to read eight books to find out how it concludes.

Sara:

Well, how about we read books two and three on the podcast next year?

Lilly:

And if three is not the end, I get to write a nasty letter.

Sara:

and if three is not the end, you get to write a nasty letter and we won't read books four through eight.

Lilly:

Good. Except Gleebeck is dead, so why even read more?

Sara:

That is, that is hard, but. You know, we want justice for him. We gotta see justice done.

Lilly:

I think that's it. I hate What was it? It wasn't Goldman Sachs, but it was basically that.

Sara:

Yeah, it was like, Goldson and Braggs, or something.

Lilly:

But I would really love to see them taken down.

Sara:

They deserve it.

Lilly:

I will spite read the rest of the series until they get

Sara:

They're comeuppance. Yeah, they were they were pretty terrible. I would say cartoonishly terrible, but I'm pretty sure that it's Based on real world financial stuff, so. Can't be cartoonish if it actually happened. Thank you so much for listening to this episode of Fiction Fans.

Lilly:

Come disagree with us. We're on Twitter, Blue Sky Instagram, and TikTok at fictionfanspod. You can also email us at fictionfanspod at gmail. com.

Sara:

If you enjoyed the episode, please rate and review on Spotify and Apple Podcasts, and follow us wherever your podcasts live.

Lilly:

We also have a Patreon where you can support us and find exclusive episodes and a lot of other nonsense.

Sara:

Thanks again for listening, and may your villains always be defeated. Bye!