Ninth Life by Stark Holborn

Your hosts read Ninth Life by Stark Holborn, the third book in what may or may not be a trilogy, they actually have no idea. They talk about the difficulties of year-long gaps before reading a sequel, debate what an epistolary novel is, and look up the definition for 2nd person POV. Lilly also spills the tea about a gossip-themed Pet Peeve.

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Thanks to the following musicians for the use of their songs:

- Amarià for the use of “Sérénade à Notre Dame de Paris”
- Josh Woodward for the use of “Electric Sunrise”

Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 4.0 License

Transcript

Lilly 0:04

Hello and welcome to Fiction Fans, a podcast where we read books and other words, too. I'm Lily,

Sara 0:09

And I'm Sarah.

Lilly 0:11

and tonight we will be discussing Nine Lives. No, Ninth Life.

Sara 0:16

Yes. Nightlife by Star Colborne.

Lilly 0:19

Her name is Nine Lives, but the book is called Ninth Life.

Sara 0:23

Yes.

Lilly 0:24

In my defense. Holy shit, I love this book and this series so much.

Sara 0:29

Oh, this book was excellent. We do have a couple of intro questions to get through before we start talking about it.

Lilly 0:36

Yeah, I'm seriously considering making my good thing reading this book.

Sara 0:41

It's so good. It was, it was excellent.

Lilly 0:45

I'm not going to use it as my good thing because that's silly, but like, it's up there.

Sara 0:49

Yeah. I would say this is one of my favorite books that we've read for the podcast this year.

Lilly 0:53

Absolutely. I mean, this series is probably in my top ten at this point. If we were going to redo our top tens.

Sara 0:59

Hmm, which I think we should, because I think it'd be interesting to see how that changes.

Lilly 1:03

read a lot more books since then.

Sara 1:06

That's very true. We both have.

Lilly 1:09

Anyway, anyway, what's your good thing? What's something great that happened recently is the correct question, sorry.

Sara 1:14

Something great that happened is I went on another backpacking trip with my father. It was slightly longer. It went really, really well. And just, yeah, it was a great trip.

Lilly 1:24

Fantastic! In your home now, you've showered, you've pet the dogs.

Sara 1:29

I did consider making my good thing showering after getting back from the trip. Four days in the wilderness, because feeling finally clean is such a nice feeling. But the whole, yeah, the whole trip in general.

Lilly 1:43

It's really funny how there is that tipping point in camping, where it's like, Yeah, I'm gross, but it's fine, because I'm camping! And then the second you get into the car to leave, you're like, Ugh!

Sara 1:55

Yeah, I mean, for me, it's less, I'm in the wilderness, so it's fine. It's, I'm in the wilderness, so I can ignore how gross it is. Washing all that dirt off. Boy, that's nice.

Lilly 2:10

So, my good thing is that past Lily, Solved a problem that I completely forgot about and proceeded to struggle with for like a week and then was like wait I've already fixed this

Sara 2:22

Go past Lily.

Lilly 2:24

I bought a little bottle of perfume, like essential oils perfume. Um, I'm not drinking it.

Sara 2:31

I didn't think that was an option.

Lilly 2:34

It depends on who you ask.

Sara 2:36

Terrifying.

Lilly 2:37

I've just been doing, like, you know, you take the lid off, and it's just a little open bottle top, and you put your wrist over it, and turn it upside down, and a little bit gets on your wrist. And if you don't, you know, spill a bunch on the floor, then it's fine. Unfortunately, I have been doing that. For the last, like, I would say 4 out of the last 5 days, there was some kind of disaster involved.

Sara 3:00

Oh no.

Lilly 3:01

So, I was complaining about this, and then I realized, I bought a refillable, like, little roller perfume applicator. Before I had even gotten this perfume, like, I already had it. So, that was good, and now I'm not dumping perfume all over the floor every time I try to use it.

Sara 3:20

Nice.

Lilly 3:21

Very. Well, what are you drinking tonight?

Sara 3:24

So I'm drinking Laphroaig because I think it's the closest thing I have in the house to the kind of rot gut that they drink on Factus.

Lilly 3:32

I'm gonna tell everyone that you called Laphroaig Rock Gut.

Sara 3:35

Oh sure, I mean, like, I will be the first, like, I love it, but I will be the first person to say that it tastes like, you know, drinking tarmac.

Lilly 3:44

Really? I've never had it, so I don't I mean, I probably have had it, but was not impressed.

Sara 3:49

Yes. Of all the whiskey that I like, I think this is one of the most acquired tastes.

Lilly 3:57

Most whiskey you like is an acquired taste, so that's saying something.

Sara 4:00

Yes.

Lilly 4:03

Well, I made weird, gross, healthy chocolate milk. Quote unquote healthy chocolate milk.

Sara 4:09

Why is it weird and gross?

Lilly 4:11

Because it was healthy. I feel like that's self explanatory.

Sara 4:16

What makes it healthy?

Lilly 4:18

It's Unflavored protein powder and sugar free chocolate syrup.

Sara 4:22

Why would you do such a thing?

Lilly 4:24

Because it was all there was in the house that wasn't hot chocolate mix, and I wasn't confident that I would be able to mix that in with cold liquid and have it dissolve correctly. And it's too hot for hot chocolate.

Sara 4:35

I guess that's fair, but also that, I'm sorry, that sounds terrible.

Lilly 4:41

It, uh, it tastes like chemicals. Not disgusting chemicals, but definitely not like chocolate. I did this to myself.

Sara 4:51

You did?

Lilly 4:52

Sarah, have you read anything good lately?

Sara 4:54

Let's see. I had a lot of time to do reading, on the backpacking trip because we would go to bed or we would get to the campsite, you know, maybe 630, have dinner, 730, then there's nothing else to do, really. So I did a lot of reading. I finished Chaingang All Stars, which I think I've talked about before.

Lilly 5:13

That one was the one that was a lot, right?

Sara 5:16

Heavy. Yeah, very heavy. And I kind of struggled a little bit with the middle, not because of anything wrong with the book, but because of, like, my own anxieties as a reader. One of the characters was keeping something from another character and that's the kind of thing that makes me anxious because I'm like, how is it going to go wrong? But they talk about it eventually. And it ended up being a really, really good book. I really liked the way that the author used footnotes. So the book is about. This kind of dystopian society, well, I don't know if it's entirely dystopian, but the bit that the book focuses on is definitely dystopian, where prisoners are basically given the opportunity to compete in murder games. like one on one murder games. And if they win enough times, then they can potentially become free. But I really liked the way the author used some of the footnotes and scenes in the book to comment on actual real world deaths or atrocities that happen within our own prison system. I thought that was a really, like, powerful way of doing it. So yes, excellent book. I'm not sure I would reread it, but it was really good.

Lilly 6:39

I have Hobbit fan fiction, which is never a good use of time.

Sara 6:45

Fan fiction is always a great use of time.

Lilly 6:48

It was very fun though. Someone recommended a fic on Reddit, as they're like, Every time I finish watching the movies, like, I have to immediately go and read this piece. And so obviously, with a recommendation like that, I had to.

Sara 7:02

Is it Thorin Bilbo?

Lilly 7:05

This specific one is a sort of shorter, you know, fix it, everyone lives, nobody dies, with a good chunk of romance. But it was very cool because I'd actually read it before. So I was like, oh, yay.

Sara 7:20

That's always a fun feeling.

Lilly 7:22

Yeah. And then it's by the same author who wrote The Mushroom Mines, which is a very long collection that I've read before. But after I'd read that one, I was like, well, well, I'm here. Let's start this 200, 000 word journey.

Sara 7:35

I'm impressed that you're reading something that's that long, because normally you're not a long, thick reader.

Lilly 7:42

I'm not. But if the author has written other short stuff that I like, then I'm willing to give it a chance.

Sara 7:47

That's fair.

Lilly 7:48

And this one I know is good because I've read it before, so.

Sara 7:51

Yes, that, that helps.

Lilly 7:53

Anyway, so that was fun.

Sara 7:55

Nice.

Lilly 7:56

Very entirely out of tone, though, for what we're talking about tonight.

Sara 8:00

Yes, this is true. The Hobbit and Hobbit fanfiction is very different from Nightlife.

Lilly 8:07

In fact, I would say maybe, if you were trying to describe this book, I would say, Imagine Thorin Bilbo Fluff, and then just like the opposite of that. Which is not a useful way to describe a book at all, but it would be funny.

Sara 8:21

It would be funny. It's not useful, but it would be funny. So Nightlife is the third book. I don't actually know what the series is called.

Lilly 8:28

I think it's called the Factus. trilogy or something to that effect. Factus being the planet where the first two books entirely took place, or almost entirely took place, and it does show up in this book as well.

Sara 8:41

Yeah. But this is book three. It follows a different character than the first two books did. The first two books followed Tenlo, and this is more about Gabby Ortiz, who shows up in the first two books, but is not the main character.

Lilly 8:57

She is not the point of view character, however. That would be Have Mercy Grey, and we'll talk later about who the main character slash protagonist is.

Sara 9:06

Yes.

Lilly 9:07

thought it was very interesting, you know, Tenloh is from the perspective of Ten, which I had struggled with at the beginning, but got over it because it's very good. And the vibe is so very different from Tenloh and Hell's Eight, the first two books, which we are absolutely going to spoil in this conversation.

Sara 9:26

Yes.

Lilly 9:27

And I think part of that is because Ten starts out already a certified badass, whereas Have, it's almost a coming of age story for them.

Sara 9:36

In some respects, yes.

Lilly 9:38

Okay, their parts of the book are almost a coming of age story for them. There's quite a bit of the book that's not about them, even if it's minorly from their perspective.

Sara 9:47

Yeah, I mean, I don't know if I would necessarily say that their story is the coming of age, but they do,

Lilly 9:54

They sure do grow up fast.

Sara 9:56

they do become, I think, a lot more competent and confident in themselves.

Lilly 10:02

Worldly,

Sara 10:03

Yeah, worldly. Which makes sense, because at the beginning of the book they'd never left their moon or wherever it is that they are.

Lilly 10:10

JP,

Sara 10:11

And then by the end, like, they're all over the place. Yes. But I also think that part of the reason why the vibe is different is just the format of the book. Like, the first two books are much more straightforward and linear, whereas this, like, the premise is that there's,

Lilly 10:31

an archivist.

Sara 10:32

yeah, this, this researcher or archivist who is looking through these historical documents that are detailing the events of the book. And so you have these different layers of story.

Lilly 10:42

And a large part of it is the testimony of Have Mercy Gray, in which they are telling the story, you know, from their perspective. And then they're telling the story that Nine was telling them. So it's like a story about a story being told about a story. It's nuts. This book is so good.

Sara 11:02

Yes.

Lilly 11:03

As much as the vibes are different, it's definitely the same genre. It's not like a departure from Tenlo and Hell's Eight.

Sara 11:11

Right, like, it feels like part of the series. It's not disconnected in that way.

Lilly 11:17

Yeah. Ooh! This is sci fi!

Sara 11:20

It is very sci fi.

Lilly 11:22

This book? Now this book is science fiction.

Sara 11:25

Yes.

Lilly 11:26

The whole series is. It's so good. It's the really fun, like, space western that is just, in this case, done excellently.

Sara 11:33

Yeah. I would say that Ninth Life might be my favorite in the trilogy, though.

Lilly 11:37

I could see that. I really love Ten, so The stories that followed her, I also really enjoyed. But, I mean, this was probably the best book in the series.

Sara 11:49

Yes.

Lilly 11:50

Do you think If you went and re read them now, it would be, like, a really different experience having read Ninth Life.

Sara 11:57

I think I would be a little less confused at points, but that might also be because I'd be reading them all at once, presumably, and We read all of them for the podcast, so we read, I think, basically one a year, right? Like,

Lilly 12:14

we've also read them when they came out, and unfortunately, that means

Sara 12:18

so basically one a year, with lots of books in between and no time to reread the previous books. So it does mean that sometimes I had trouble following along with what was happening. Or, like, character backgrounds, because I was like, I know this was covered, but I don't actually remember it because it was covered in a previous book. But I think I felt that way more about Hell's Eight than I did about Ninth Life.

Lilly 12:42

Yeah, also, because HALF is very much thrown into this with no background knowledge, it doesn't feel as bad that I didn't remember stuff, because HALF doesn't know either, so it's fine.

Sara 12:54

Yeah, we are spending a lot of time in the mind of a character who doesn't know all of these little nuances about Gabi or about the people that Gabi has spent time with.

Lilly 13:04

I will say, I fucking love epistolary novels. It's one of my favorite formats.

Sara 13:09

So I loved the format of this book. Absolutely, absolutely, absolutely loved it. I also love epistolary novels. I'm not sure if I would consider this an epistolary novel because it's not letters.

Lilly 13:20

Is that necessary? I thought that was just, like, one kind.

Sara 13:23

My understanding was that it was letters, and I think that that's where the name epistolary comes from.

Lilly 13:29

Well, sure. That's where the name comes from. But, I don't know. Apparently, Carrie by Stephen King is considered an epistolary novel.

Sara 13:37

I've never,

Lilly 13:38

A story told through newspaper clippings, magazine articles, letters, and book excerpts. I also have not read Carrie.

Sara 13:44

yeah.

Lilly 13:44

But if that's an epistolary novel, this is an epistolary novel. Well,

Sara 13:49

but it does say that there are letters in there.

Lilly 13:52

so what's your definition of a letter?

Sara 13:54

Something that is written. Uh,

Lilly 13:57

Because then Idrissy Blake's work could be considered a letter.

Sara 14:00

I guess. So, when I think of epistolary letters, I think more of two characters writing to each other. Now, I don't know how accurate that really is to the definition, to be fair.

Lilly 14:13

That's definitely not necessary because I found the definition over here. A monologic epistolary novel is made up of letters from only one person, and you have described a dialogic epistolary novel, which is made up of letters of two characters.

Sara 14:31

Okay.

Lilly 14:32

And then polylogic made up of the letters of three or more characters.

Sara 14:36

I guess I have a very narrow definition of a pistillary novel then.

Lilly 14:40

And I mean, I think, I would accept the argument that two characters writing to each other is the purest form. But I mean, if this, a collection of, like, news clippings and journal excerpts and transcribed testimony isn't an epistolary, Then what is it? Like, there's not a better word for it.

Sara 15:00

There's not a better word for it, but it still is not what I think of when I think of a pistillary. Which, that could be a me problem, I'm willing to admit.

Lilly 15:10

I mean, that's fine. It doesn't have to be your exemplar.

Sara 15:14

Yeah. Haha.

Lilly 15:19

But that doesn't make it not one.

Sara 15:21

That's true. It doesn't necessarily. I, I just don't want to accept it as one because it doesn't fit in my very narrow definition.

Lilly 15:29

It's so funny, I am usually so picky about perspective for prose, which we were going back and looking at our notes for Tenlo and I struggled a lot with that in the beginning of that book, despite loving it immensely. And I didn't even, like, pick up that Grey's testimony, Have Mercy Grey's testimony, was in second person until, like, halfway through.

Sara 15:53

Okay, is it in second person though? If it's have mercy, is the point of view person using the I pronoun directing it at someone? Because Gabby is always the you. It's not the reader. Who is the, the you.

Lilly 16:09

Okay, you're right. Yeah, the reader isn't you, and I guess that is, that does seem like a necessary aspect. I think the fact that it is all internally consistent, like, with the universe and Have Mercy isn't just talking to the reader for some reason. They're talking to, you know, Gabi. The you has a purpose. Even their testimony is given context for why it exists and why it has been collected. Goes so far, for me also, for not disliking first person perspective.

Sara 16:41

Yeah. I mean, so the bits that we read as the reader, we're given to understand that the researcher Blake has edited them a little bit for content and clarity. And so some of that. Might be, what we're reading is not necessarily what Hav put down on the page, but presumably it's pretty close. But it also definitely does have a purpose, like, we're not in Hav's head as they're doing these things. This is something that Hav wrote down.

Lilly 17:12

Yeah, I'm not sitting there going, How am I reading this? How has this information been transmitted?

Sara 17:18

Right. You already know.

Lilly 17:20

Yeah. Oh, you know, Blake also writes in second person. Basically, this book is about a bunch of people getting really obsessed with Gabi.

Sara 17:29

Blake doesn't write in second person, though.

Lilly 17:31

There's a lot of yous directed at Gabi.

Sara 17:34

Okay, but that's, that's not writing in second person.

Lilly 17:37

no, you're right, we already established that. So, like how Hav is talking to Gabi in their testimony, Blake is also talking to Gabi in their journal entries.

Sara 17:48

Yes.

Lilly 17:49

Basically, everyone loves Gabi. And not romantically, but like, obsession devoting their life to her. Willing to die for her.

Sara 17:58

Yes, everyone is obsessed with Gabi for different reasons.

Lilly 18:02

I did really love in Blake. the archivist who has not only pulled all of this information together, but also writes journal entries about their journey of trying to find all the pieces, which was really enjoyable. But their whole plot line has a really strong theme of like, trying to discover truth, especially when it's buried under, you know, all of this propaganda, fake news, and even people who didn't really understand what they were seeing trying to make sense of it. And that was a really enjoyable plot line. It's a little stressful.

Sara 18:37

Yeah, I really liked watching Blake tug on all of these different disparate threads trying to figure out Gabi's story and coming up against roadblocks and kind of getting paranoid about the roadblocks and then ultimately putting all of the pieces together, you know, at the very end.

Lilly 18:56

And there's a few times, I don't think this is a spoiler, Blake is like kind of shocked and upset because in the story, in Have Mercy's Testimony, they're telling the story of Gabby telling her life story, and then there are a few points where Gabby says, And Blake, that's important, make sure to write that part down. And at the beginning, Blake is like, Clearly she meant someone else, right?

Sara 19:21

What the actual fuck is going on here?

Lilly 19:24

Ugh, so good.

Sara 19:25

Yes.

Lilly 19:27

How much do you think we really missed out on this by not rereading the first two books?

Sara 19:31

So I feel like there were definitely things that I would have picked up on faster if we had reread the first two books, like characters that I would have remembered without needing a little bit more of an introduction. But on the whole, because this does take place, you know, like 40 years after the events of the first two books, and it does follow a different main character. Even though, of course, Gabi's in the first two books, I thought it stood alone pretty well.

Lilly 20:02

I don't think it stands alone. But I don't think I needed crystal clear memory of the first two books, which I think is what you meant.

Sara 20:09

Yeah, I mean, I'm not necessarily going to recommend that people start the series with this book, right?

Lilly 20:15

No, you definitely need to know what Ten went through. Because, I mean, she turns into basically a mythological being. Um, and it was, well, we'll talk about that in a little bit. But, you That's, it happens in Hell's Eight, so that's not a spoiler for this book. But, I think when you hear about her, and how other people talk about her, versus how Gabi talks about her, not knowing her story would make that experience very different. You don't need to remember the particulars of it.

Sara 20:46

I think that knowing her story helps, but I think that you could still enjoy this book without it.

Lilly 20:54

Yeah, probably. It's a good book. But I don't think it would have the right impact.

Sara 20:59

Right, but, but in that respect, it does stand alone.

Lilly 21:02

But why would you skip Tenlo and Hell's Eight?

Sara 21:06

Again, I'm not necessarily recommending that you do,

Lilly 21:09

Just that it's possible,

Sara 21:10

just that it's possible. Like, I don't think that you could read Hell's Eight without having read Tenlo.

Lilly 21:15

Absolutely, that's true.

Sara 21:17

But I think that you could read Ninth Life and enjoy it without having read the first two books that said, why would you want to

Lilly 21:25

Yeah, especially considering they are, you know, in the same world, in the same genres, there's the same themes of like survivalism and humanity scraping by. If you were gonna like Ninth Life, you would like Tenlo and Hell's Eight. So there's no reason to, I don't know. Sometimes series get wild and it's like, don't even bother with the first or second half. That's not what we're doing here. So then, I mean, obviously, who should read this book if you read Tenlo and Elsate? So this series, the, what I'm going to call the Factus series, even though I cannot find anything to back up why I think it's called that, so maybe I made it up. Okay, cool. I was right. Thank you.

Sara 22:13

You were almost right.

Lilly 22:15

If any factus was involved.

Sara 22:16

Yeah. Sequence, not series, but.

Lilly 22:19

So we were trying to find who should read Tenlo from our episode on Many Years Ago. And we found the blurb, Mad Max meets Firefly.

Sara 22:30

Which I think remains accurate.

Lilly 22:31

Yes. I also apparently said the line, if you want some like weird spiritual shit all mixed up in your pretty reasonable sci fi, get in on this. Which also remains accurate.

Sara 22:44

Also remains accurate.

Lilly 22:46

So I highly recommend everyone go read Tenlo and then be able to read the next two in a row, which we weren't able to do. But liked it anyway.

Sara 22:55

We were not, but I think it is the mark of a good series where you're still such a fan of the book, even when you're like, I really should have reread the first couple of books.

Lilly 23:06

Yeah. To avoid spoilers, skip to 43 44. But first, a word from our sponsors. You! You're our sponsors! Thank you to our patrons for making this podcast possible.

Sara 23:23

If you support us on Patreon, you can find, um, show notes. Do we still post our show notes?

Lilly 23:29

No.

Sara 23:29

Okay, you can't find our show notes.

Lilly 23:31

Those are top secret.

Sara 23:33

But, you can find us playing a game of Shoot, Screw, or Marry with book characters from the books that we read. You can get exclusive episodes, and at our highest tier of support, you can even watch us record an exclusive episode, which may or may not be worth the money.

Lilly 23:54

Our wonderful smiling faces, of course it is.

Sara 23:57

Of course. You can hear all of our digressions,

Lilly 24:00

Yes, we have some outtakes. I occasionally clip various animal noises that don't make it into the final cuts and make little compilations.

Sara 24:09

of which there are a lot of animal noises.

Lilly 24:12

Mm hmm. I mean, the double edged sword is that as our recording equipment has gotten better, the pet noises have decreased.

Sara 24:19

Decreased or increased? There are less of them now?

Lilly 24:23

They're more isolated.

Sara 24:25

Okay. Because I would think that as our audio equipment gets better, you can hear for example, the pug snores more.

Lilly 24:32

If the pug snores are loud enough to get picked up, they fucking get picked up. But these microphones have more directionality.

Sara 24:39

Ah, that's true.

Lilly 24:40

So if they're not, like, right up next to the microphone, we don't really hear it. And hey, nice microphones are another thing that our patrons have made possible for us, so

Sara 24:49

Yes. Through your support we are able to host our website, host the podcast, buy equipment, buy books occasionally, although we would be buying the books anyway, so, I don't know if that really counts as a podcast expense.

Lilly 25:04

No. Okay, we have to ask the question, who is the main character? I think there are three nominees, although I don't think there is an equal argument for all three. In any book, you have to consider, at least consider, the point of view characters. Now, yes, Watson is not the main character of Sherlock Holmes, in fact, by that argument. Well, actually, it's not named after Nine Lives because it's called Ninth Life, so it's not her name on the title of the book. Never mind.

Sara 25:33

It's not her name, but it is still about her because it's about her ninth life.

Lilly 25:38

There's also, is Idrissy correct? Idrissy Blake? I feel like that's correct. Idrissy.

Sara 25:43

I'm going to be real honest, I read this book like five books ago, so some of the finer details have escaped my mind. But yes, it is Military Proctor Idrissi Blake.

Lilly 25:54

And then Have Mercy Grey, the youth who finds themselves, well, trying to arrest Gabby, but

Sara 26:02

Successfully arresting Gabi.

Lilly 26:05

They had help. She was half dead.

Sara 26:07

They did have help. She was half dead. That does not negate the fact that Hav did successfully arrest Gabi.

Lilly 26:14

That's true. But then they end up saving each other's lives a lot. The development of their relationship was really sweet.

Sara 26:20

Yeah, I liked seeing Hav grow from this. young kid who is basically just doing it because they need the money of Gabi's bounty to someone who has experience and respects Gabi for, like, all of her experience.

Lilly 26:39

I mean, Blake is obviously not the main character, so we can just cut that one right at the beginning.

Sara 26:45

But I love Blake's story! I want more Blake!

Lilly 26:49

Okay, the fact that this book balances three different stories that are all revolving around Gabi, but are still different stories, and even if they don't all have equal stage time, They're still all very well developed, and I really loved all three of those characters.

Sara 27:07

It didn't feel unbalanced, right? Like, you're right that they don't all get equal page time, but it feels like an appropriate breakdown.

Lilly 27:16

I mean, Blake is basically just Except we also followed the deterioration of their relationship.

Sara 27:26

And their, like, working life.

Lilly 27:29

You called it paranoia earlier, which I think we had to because it was the non spoiler

Sara 27:33

I, yeah, I,

Lilly 27:35

But the fact that it ended up being completely justified, I mean, was obvious, but was also delightful.

Sara 27:41

yes. Like, I loved, and I, I did call it paranoia because I was trying to not give away spoilers too much, but I loved seeing Blake realize that all of their research is being deleted. Intentionally, on purpose, by the higher ups, that they are being used as some kind of, like, sniffing dog to sniff out all of the remnants of Gabi that are in the archives, so that everything about her can be deleted.

Lilly 28:09

Blake's realization, because their question throughout this project was, Who is trying to sabotage my research? And the realization that those very same people who assigned them that research, because the entire point of the project was just to discover the proof, not because they actually wanted a full report. And then them sending it to all of the news agencies at the very end was just like, Oh, incredible.

Sara 28:35

was, it was so good. Semi unrelated, but I loved the radio clippings.

Lilly 28:42

Oh, they were so smarmy, it was

Sara 28:44

They were so, they were so smarmy. It was incredible. I was like, these are my favorite bits. I loved everything, but I loved those in particular. But okay, so for our second candidate for main character, obviously we have, have, have Mercy Gray, whose testimonies make up, I would say, the bulk of this book.

Lilly 29:06

The deal they make with Gabby at the very beginning is, I will keep, well, Gabby says, I will keep you alive if you listen to my story and have kind of, you know, ah, I'm turning you in. And then obviously is in way over their head. because they are not a professional bounty hunter, and even if they were, Gabby is kind of the superhuman

Sara 29:26

Yes.

Lilly 29:27

It was really interesting to see, I mean, one of the main aspects of 10 low was that 10. Isn't the only person who can harness the power of the if demons? And I know they're not called demons, but that's still like the easiest way to talk about it. I'm just saying the ifs

Sara 29:45

That sounds like a band.

Lilly 29:47

is linguistically difficult, yeah. And so it was very interesting in this book seeing more people with that capability,

Sara 29:54

Use them, yeah.

Lilly 29:56

yeah. So that's, I mean, that's how Gabi has nine lives. Because she has used the probability machine that are the ifs to avoid nine deaths, basically. Although it has definitely caught up with her at this point. Argument for why have could be the main character. They go through the most character growth.

Sara 30:19

Yes. I think that I would say that Hav is the main character, but the book is about Gabi.

Lilly 30:27

Yeah, I would agree with that. Because even have Going through growth is about Gabi.

Sara 30:33

Yeah, like, the entire action of the book revolves around Gabi, centers around Gabi, but I think that, like you say, Hav goes through the most growth. They're also the point of view character for most of it. They, Are the ones not doing the action, but like, recording everything? They're right there in the thick of things.

Lilly 30:54

Except for the thick of things that is Nine Lives, Nine Lives. Nine lives is nine lives. Also a hard thing to say. I really loved how this book balanced, well, have storyline with Gabi's storyline, right? Like Gabi's past with Gabi's present, which is What she's sharing with Have Mercy, but this book balances Big Bad, capital B, Big Bad Which is the, you know, we have to save the world, the system is broken Politicians, not even politicians, but you know Capitalist hellscape, company owners are trying to destroy planets, huge conceptual things At the same time, we have the really, like, personal and intimate problems and conflicts that I would say are more around HALF's storyline. Like, we get Shockney, who's sort of a, not a gang leader, but basically a gang leader.

Sara 31:54

think gang leader is not inaccurate.

Lilly 31:56

A sanctioned gang, gang leader. Not a counterculture gang, which is what Nine Lives is part of. And I, because I always like those close stories, and so being able to have both of them at the same time made the, like, big, overarching, Gabi needs to destroy the, not, just, murder, destroy, what a weird word choice there. She needs to murder the head of the company who's trying to fuck up FACTIS and starve everybody.

Sara 32:27

she's already murdered him.

Lilly 32:29

Yeah, okay, but her story is about how Xiao Xi needs to.

Sara 32:32

Yes. But even in her storyline, which does have Much bigger themes, I think, because she, in the scheme of this universe, she has more impact on things than have. I mean, she's just a larger figure, but even her storyline has some of those very personal lowercase B bad things and people.

Lilly 32:58

Absolutely. I mean, the only reason why any of this has happening is because she decides to give a fuck about Factus. Random moon that no one else cares about.

Sara 33:08

She's got friends on Factus. It's personal.

Lilly 33:11

Oh yeah, and that's exactly it. It's personal. Like, they're the found family that we see her acquire in the first two books. are not really gone into here, except we know this woman will do anything for that stupid moon.

Sara 33:27

I would say that they're mentioned, but obviously you don't really get their story that much.

Lilly 33:32

Exactly, yeah. We just see people who she obviously cares about. And in this book, you just sort of accept that, okay, yeah, she cares about them. But having read the storyline of her growing to care about them, which I only vaguely remembered, made it so much more meaningful.

Sara 33:50

Yes, agreed.

Lilly 33:52

I do think I remember Tenlo better than Hellzate, and it was kind of a problem.

Sara 33:56

It's funny, I think I remember Tenlo better than Halsey too.

Lilly 34:00

I have a theory. Because when we read Hell's Eight, we had to recall Tenlo.

Sara 34:07

Yeah, okay, I would believe that.

Lilly 34:09

And so we have now thought about Tenlo twice, and Hell's Eight only the once.

Sara 34:14

Yeah, I, yeah, I would, I would believe that. It's funny because there are some scenes from Hell's Eight that are very distinct in my head, but I couldn't necessarily tell you the plot of Hell's Eight.

Lilly 34:27

Well, Hell's Eight also, I know we said that the first two are more linear, but Hell's Eight does have some crazy time skipping going on in the story, like, storytelling.

Sara 34:37

Yeah, that's also very true.

Lilly 34:39

With that, like, outpost that we're slowly finding out what happened to, and so there was definitely some complexity there that I think I would really like to reread, because I think I might figure out what's going on better. I mean, I got there. It was fine. It was enjoyable, but all three of these books have had an aspect of just buckle up, and you'll get there in the end. Ask questions, but they won't be answered right away.

Sara 35:05

Yes.

Lilly 35:06

We got almost a farewell tour of characters in this book.

Sara 35:10

We kind of did,

Lilly 35:11

was almost like the series of cameos for everyone we've grown to know and love.

Sara 35:15

but it didn't feel intrusive the way that that sometimes can, right? It felt like the characters were being introduced appropriately, and it just so happened that it was a farewell tour.

Lilly 35:28

Well, and when Gabi is telling the story of, not her whole life, well, kind of her whole life, because she does start as a genetically engineered child soldier.

Sara 35:36

Yeah, she skips over a lot of the early stuff, but she mentions it.

Lilly 35:40

So it makes sense that she's going to mention all of the important people that she and we have met if it's the story of her life. So it's natural. It doesn't feel forced.

Sara 35:50

Yes.

Lilly 35:51

I am still so mad, not actually mad, deeply upset about the relationship between Ten and Silas.

Sara 36:01

Interesting.

Lilly 36:02

The unresolved, not unresolved, but like, they don't really break up, but they kind of do, and it's just never good. There's no closure.

Sara 36:11

Yeah, but it's, it's hard to have a relationship with basically a mythological figure.

Lilly 36:17

Yeah, no, I know. It's good. That's why I downgraded it from mad. The romance reader in me is deeply upset.

Sara 36:26

That's fair. That's fair.

Lilly 36:28

No, it's well done. It's good. I feel like every time, or not every time, but in Hell's Eight I had the same experience. Where I was just like, da da da, reading about these badasses, okay. Oh fuck, that's right, Silas exists. Wait, hang on! There should be smooching!

Sara 36:47

I wasn't mad about Silas's relationship or lack thereof in this book, but Gabi's relationship with, and I can't for the life of me remember the name,

Lilly 36:56

Roof?

Sara 36:57

yeah, that made me sad.

Lilly 37:00

That was heartbreaking.

Sara 37:02

so heartbreaking.

Lilly 37:04

Oh my god. We also got a lot more of the edge in this book. Because we've seen it a little bit, but it's been very mysterious. And it's still very mysterious. But Gabi spends a What we find out is ten years in this sort of, like, liminal space, afterlife thing,

Sara 37:24

Living with Roof, who's dead.

Lilly 37:26

Uh, who died for her, who snuck into a, not a project, a mission to save her life and die in her stead, basically. Or not die in her stead, but like, sacrifice themselves so she would live. But I think, I think that means that she'll be able to go back, don't you?

Sara 37:44

I hope so.

Lilly 37:45

I think it's, it kind of implied that when she dies for real, because like, 10 kind of sneaks her in to the edge to hang out with Roof, right? That's not, that's not like how it's supposed to happen.

Sara 37:57

I mean, yes, it is kind of implied, and I think that there is a hopeful aspect at the end of the book. Not in the sense that Gabi is going to live, because Gabi is definitely not going to live, but that Gabi might have some kind of content afterlife.

Lilly 38:15

Her and 10 blowing themselves up together.

Sara 38:19

Oh, my heart. I cried at the end of this book.

Lilly 38:24

Oh, how can you not?

Sara 38:26

I mean, like, I cry at the drop of a hat, but this book definitely turned on the waterworks.

Lilly 38:31

Yeah, the like, the triumph of it. Like, they're going out with a bang and they know it.

Sara 38:38

Yes. But, like, it's so bittersweet because you have that one brief moment of hope that they're all gonna get away and things are gonna turn out okay, but of course, like, Hopeborn's not gonna let us sit with that for very long.

Lilly 38:52

Yeah, I mean, half Mercy gets away.

Sara 38:55

It's not a depressing ending.

Lilly 38:58

Yeah, it's definitely not like a, Everyone lives happily ever after.

Sara 39:02

No, and that's, I just want my happy ever after for everyone that I care about.

Lilly 39:08

Yeah, it Oh my god. I loved Ten so much in Tenlo and Hell's Eight, and like, being in her head, I eventually liked that part. But seeing her like, change from completely denying the ifs and her like, chance magic, I'm gonna call it that. That's also not exactly right, but it's not wrong.

Sara 39:33

It's not wrong, it's close enough.

Lilly 39:35

To embracing it, and then becoming a cult leader, and then becoming a mythological figure is not quite the right phrase. What am I looking for? Folklore? Like folklore legend? Folk legend. Is that a thing?

Sara 39:48

Yeah,

Lilly 39:49

Have I gotten there?

Sara 39:50

yeah, I'd say she becomes a folk legend.

Lilly 39:54

And of course we know that every word about her is true. Well, not every word, but the aspects that people are quickest to dismiss. It's like, yeah, she can walk the line between life and death. We've, we've seen her do it. Oh, and the Seekers are still such a cool I think I, in my heart of hearts, like Hellzate the best, because the Seekers are so heavy metal.

Sara 40:16

I mean, the Seekers are very Uh, that's where I get the most Mad Max vibes, I think.

Lilly 40:23

Mm. Scavenging body parts off of dead, or nearly dead, bodies to, like, help keep other people alive. I think that's the part that makes it not Edgelord y.

Sara 40:32

Yeah, they're definitely not Edgelord. And they are, like you said, they are doing it in order to keep other people alive. And the people that they are taking organs from are either dead or, like, they're dead and they just don't know it yet.

Lilly 40:47

Yeah, their goal is always to help first. So like, if they could save your life, they would do that. If they can't save your life, they will take all your blood and your skin and also some teeth. Maybe your eyes. Couple organs.

Sara 41:00

And, you know, honestly, like, there's nothing wrong with that.

Lilly 41:05

The ultimate recyclers.

Sara 41:07

Yeah.

Lilly 41:07

The, like, humanitarian aspect of it makes it interesting, and not just, like, Oh, the black market organ trade, or whatever. I love all of that so much, that I think Hells 8 will probably be, like, my personal favorite. Which is different from Like, looking at the series as a whole. Which, yeah, Ninth Life is obviously

Sara 41:28

Well, yeah, I mean, there's the difference between which book do you like best and which book is the best. I think for me, both of those answers would be Ninth Life. It was my, I think it was the one that I had the most fun reading. And also I think it's the best. But a lot of that comes down to personal taste, too.

Lilly 41:45

I mean, I loved it. And, you know, Ninth Life being the best out of Is Is this a trilogy? Is it done? It is, right? Or not necessarily?

Sara 41:54

I'm not sure. I don't actually know.

Lilly 41:57

I guess I could see other stories in this world. But I It's not I mean, ten died, we're pretty sure.

Sara 42:04

Yeah, I don't think that there are more stories that could be told about Ten and Gabi.

Lilly 42:10

If there were more stories in the FACTUS sequence I would probably personally consider them a separate series, just because it's gonna be about different people.

Sara 42:20

Yes.

Lilly 42:21

if it was about Half Mercy, it wouldn't feel the same, like the same story arc.

Sara 42:26

Right. It would definitely feel like a separate series.

Lilly 42:30

Yeah. Anyway, so for the final book in a trilogy, I've just decided that's what this is. For the sake of the argument, Honestly, for every book in this trilogy, for each one to have been better than the last, despite it already starting so high, it's fucking incredible.

Sara 42:46

It is. I mean, Holborn does an amazing job with this series. Like we've said, this is one of our favorite books this year that we've read. So, yeah. Excellent. A Ten out of ten, no notes.

Lilly 43:02

I'm borrowing trouble. Are you ready?

Sara 43:04

Uh oh.

Lilly 43:05

Next time we do a, like, top 10 books list, like, you can't pick a whole series. That's cheating. But I don't think I could pick Hell's Eight, because I think I would choose Ninth Life as the emblematic book to encapsulate the whole series.

Sara 43:21

Hmm.

Lilly 43:22

That's upsetting to me.

Sara 43:24

I mean, you could just spend three of your ten slots on these books.

Lilly 43:32

That might be a little dramatic. We'll see. We'll see how I'm feeling when we actually do it.

Sara 43:36

Dramatic, maybe, but well within the realm of legality.

Lilly 43:40

Yes. I learned something about myself while I was reading this book.

Sara 43:49

What did you learn, Lily?

Lilly 43:50

Apparently I really hate the word scuttlebutt.

Sara 43:54

Interesting. What about it do you hate? Why do you hate it?

Lilly 44:01

I don't know. It's used Blake, the archivist, uses it to describe how they're trying to get extra information about one of the events that they find an incomplete report about. And so they're looking for scuttlebutt. And I was like, no. What? Why? I

Sara 44:24

I can't say that the word particularly bothers me.

Lilly 44:28

think it's a really cute word. Maybe it just felt really out of place.

Sara 44:33

It does feel kind of you know what it reminds me of?

Lilly 44:37

A crab with a huge ass?

Sara 44:39

I was gonna say a cuttlefish.

Lilly 44:41

Mmm, also a cuttlefish with a huge ass. Does okay, is the word butt actually spelled like butt? Or is that just how I remember it?

Sara 44:48

I think it actually is.

Lilly 44:50

It is! Yeah, okay, I'm right.

Sara 44:54

It is like, kind of a cute word.

Lilly 44:58

And so I think, like, okay, apparently there's a beer brewery up here in Everett called Scuttlebutt Brewing, and if their logo is anything adorable and nautical, that's fine.

Sara 45:10

I mean, it does have nautical origins.

Lilly 45:13

Yeah, yeah, and that, like, totally fits into this world. It's just, scuttlebutt, I don't, I don't like it. There is no logical or justifiable reason for me to hate this word as much as I do.

Sara 45:27

I'm sorry.

Lilly 45:28

It just, like, completely took me out of it. I had to actually set the book down for a minute.

Sara 45:34

Yeah, I think that's just an irrational distaste for the word.

Lilly 45:38

Yeah, I, mm mm, didn't work for me.

Sara 45:43

I had no problems with it.

Lilly 45:45

Ugh. Thank you so much for listening to this episode of Fiction Fans.

Sara 45:52

Come disagree with us. We're on Twitter, TikTok at FictionFansPod. You can also email us at FictionFansPod at gmail. com.

Lilly 46:02

If you enjoyed the episode, please rate and review on Spotify and Apple Podcasts, and follow us wherever your podcasts live.

Sara 46:10

We also have a Patreon where you can support us and find exclusive episodes and a lot of other nonsense.

Lilly 46:16

Thanks again for listening, and may your villains always be defeated.

Sara 46:20

Bye.