Fiction Fans

Bonus: Mushroom Blues by Adrian M. Gibson

• Lilly Ellison

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Your hosts are joined by Krystle Matar and Adrian M. Gibson for a spoiler-filled follow-up conversation about his debut novel, Mushroom Blues. They talk about dark themes, cultural influences on the Hopponese, and the character development of Koji and Henrietta.

This whole episode contains spoilers for Mushroom Blues.

Find more from Adrian:
https://x.com/adrianmgibson 

Find more from Krystle:

https://x.com/KrystleMatar 


Find us on Discord / Support us on Patreon

Thanks to the following musicians for the use of their songs:

- Amarià for the use of “Sérénade à Notre Dame de Paris”

Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 4.0 License


Lilly:

Hello and welcome to Fiction Fans, a podcast where we read books and other words too. I'm Lily.

Sara:

And I'm Sarah, and today we are delighted to be joined by our secret third co host, Crystal Mattar, and author Adrian M. Gibson for a spoiler filled talk about his debut novel, Mushroom Blues. Welcome, both of you.

Adrian:

Hello.

Krystle:

I should have worn my fiction fan sweater. I don't know why I always forget it when I come on, but oh well.

Sara:

Missed opportunity.

Krystle:

Yeah, I'm a failure.

Adrian:

Point deducted.

Krystle:

Yeah!

Sara:

You're no longer our secret third co host.

Adrian:

You've been demoted

Lilly:

that's why you're the secret one, because you

Krystle:

because I never remember, I never remember to wear my swag.

Adrian:

Oh, my God.

Lilly:

So before we begin this conversation, I would like to ask you the most important and hardest question of our time tonight. What's something great that happened recently?

Sara:

I'll start.

Lilly:

Thank you.

Sara:

I'll take one for the team. Um, my good thing is, okay, so I'm kind of reusing it, but it's a different rose, so it counts. Um, uh, one of my roses is blooming and it's very pretty. This is the first year that I've had it in, um, and it's very pretty. It smells gorgeous. I'm really pleased that it's grown so much and it makes me happy.

Krystle:

That is a good thing. Yeah.

Adrian:

My mushrooms are growing from my book and that makes me super happy, even though it's like on the opposite, hell yeah, even though it's on like the opposite end of the spectrum, it's like mine is kind of more repugnant and it doesn't smell terrible.

Sara:

though.

Adrian:

Yeah. It smells nice and stale inside that little,

Krystle:

okay, I

Adrian:

fruiting chamber. Yeah.

Krystle:

It's not the same as Rose

Adrian:

for a lot of people, it is repugnant to be like mushrooms in general. But anyways, yeah.

Lilly:

though.

Krystle:

Yeah, they do

Adrian:

Uh, you know, they're like, if you give me some, like, some like rose, uh, what's the like rose water

Krystle:

Yeah,

Adrian:

you know, like, yeah. Yeah. Like rosewater syrup is amazing. Rose hips. Yeah.

Lilly:

So you're saying highly manufactured and manipulated roses are acceptable? That, that is not arguing effectively that they are better than mushrooms.

Krystle:

No,

Sara:

hips are not manufactured.

Krystle:

and and rose water is just like the the the petals have been soaked in water and then they make syrup out of it.

Lilly:

That's technically processing.

Adrian:

but it's not like

Lilly:

more processing than just chomping into a

Krystle:

like that's who chops into raw mushrooms though? Like, don't

Sara:

It's salads.

Krystle:

That's also

Lilly:

a salad! Yeah, all the time!

Adrian:

I don't know what raw mushrooms you aren't. You you've never had raw mushrooms, crystal.

Krystle:

No, I don't, I don't think I've ever seen raw mushrooms in salads. Maybe it's like, I don't know. I feel like this isn't exclusively a me thing, because I eat at restaurants like a normal person, and never once have I been served, um, mushrooms on a

Adrian:

It's usually only button mushrooms. Just to clarify

Krystle:

Anyway. Anyway.

Adrian:

What's a good thing that happened to you lately?

Krystle:

Um, I don't have any growing things. Like, I feel, I feel like I'm letting the team down, but I have, I'm on a plant buying ban, so I don't have any new, new growing things, but I guess the reason I'm on the plant buying ban is because we've booked all of our stuff for Glasgow. I think we're fully booked for everything we need this week, which feels pretty awesome. Um, it's real and it's gonna happen and it's not refundable, so I'm for sure, for sure going.

Adrian:

I like that caveat. It's going to happen. It's nonrefundable.

Krystle:

Yeah, exactly.

Lilly:

Well, my good thing is tenuously garden related, because my parents are visiting for the summer. They got here this week. It's wonderful.

Adrian:

They're like, your garden looks terrible. Let us fix it.

Lilly:

I mean, they said it nicer than that, but that is what they've done.

Adrian:

I called

Krystle:

Way to go, Adrian.

Adrian:

They just roll in with the judgment, but then they're like, we'll help you. And it's like, all right,

Lilly:

yeah, well, they skip the judgment. They, they come up and they stay because they help us immensely with the house. We have a fixer upper that is far outside of my skill set.

Sara:

And your father is very talented at fixing things up.

Lilly:

I mean, like, builds houses from the ground up. Like, he can do this in his sleep. Um, well, he could ten years ago. We're gonna help now. But, uh, they roll up. My dad has an entire literal pickaxe to take the blackberries out of our yard. And then my mom just sits there and weeds. And that's her happy place. And

Adrian:

Does she have, does she have the, the, the gardening knee pads?

Lilly:

No, we give her a bucket to sit on.

Adrian:

She gets a bucket?

Lilly:

One bucket to sit on and one bucket to put the weeds in. It's a two bucket system.

Adrian:

Get her some fucking knee pads, man. Be nice.

Lilly:

then she has to kneel. That's harder

Adrian:

Kneeling is easier than bending over while you're sitting.

Lilly:

I'll ask her. She'll, she can decide.

Adrian:

Okay, you want to keep your bucket, or do you want, do you want knee pads? Yeah,

Lilly:

in the house. If she wanted them, she could have requested them.

Adrian:

maybe she doesn't know there are options beyond the bucket. You never

Lilly:

Uh, okay. I have more faith in my mother, but I've met her, so.

Adrian:

is such a sad image. Just a bucket woman.

Lilly:

I mean, you say that, but you should see my garden. It's impeccable right

Krystle:

good, yeah. Worth

Adrian:

Yeah, but how is her lower

Krystle:

to the fuck. Oh god.

Lilly:

So what's everyone drinking this

Adrian:

my

Lilly:

Changing the subject a little bit. I

Adrian:

Oh

Sara:

I, uh, took a page out of Mushroom Blues and I'm drinking some rice wine, but I bought it from Trader Joe's, uh, and it did come in a box.

Adrian:

I am all for that.

Sara:

that was the only sake they

Adrian:

sake! That is amazing. I love it. That is great.

Krystle:

I didn't know, I had no idea that you could get sake in a box, and I

Sara:

Neither did I.

Adrian:

of course, like they, they've just like bastardized every alcoholic beverage to box status at

Krystle:

Trader Joe's would, yeah, I

Sara:

this is the only sake they have. I asked, like, I was looking for, I was looking for bottles, right? And I didn't see any. And I thought, surely Trader Joe's is going to have something. Um, so I asked the person and she was like, yeah, we have it. It's right here. And I got there. And it was, it's, it's a box. It looks like a little mini milk carton, basically.

Adrian:

Okay. Interesting.

Krystle:

so it's ever so slightly classier than boxed wine, is what I'm hearing.

Sara:

Yes,

Lilly:

think boxes are more environmentally friendly than glass, so you can just like, use that. Use that to

Sara:

are. It's true.

Adrian:

If they wanted to get like super mushroom bluesy about it, they could be like, this is made of micro paper

Krystle:

Yeah, there we

Adrian:

something like that. Micro carton. Come on, Trader Joe's.

Krystle:

Yeah, missed opportunity.

Adrian:

Jeez.

Krystle:

We're gonna rack up one missed opportunity per person in

Adrian:

Yeah. I mean, we're on a roll. We got boxes and buckets. We're having a great time.

Krystle:

Well, I'll go. I'm drinking. I'm back to the classic Lottie. I have to. Although, I feel like I've accumulated a second missed opportunity. Because I have a Writer's Cheers that's Japanese cask finish. And, like, That would have been topically really perfect, but I'm a failure and I went with, I went with

Adrian:

You are not a failure,

Krystle:

instead. Yeah, I,

Sara:

just a little bit of a failure.

Krystle:

Thank you, Sarah. I'm

Lilly:

You're a B

Krystle:

I'm winning. That's

Adrian:

Well, as, as, as per, as per usual, yeah. As per usual on fiction fans, I'm not, I'm, I'm not drinking water. Just regular water. No, it's like, I don't drink much alcohol, but I am drinking, uh, it's called Weetig and it's basically like. Uh, naturally carbonated mineral water from like a volcanic spring. So it's like cool water, you know?

Krystle:

like, yeah, that's,

Lilly:

Edgy water.

Adrian:

yeah, super edgy, man. But it's like, it's natural, it's naturally carbonated just because of the, the like, sort of like mineral composition of the volcano and like the gases and stuff like that. And you open that up and it does that nice, like, like a, like a bottle of bottle of soda.

Sara:

Does that mean that it doesn't go flat?

Adrian:

Um, it takes a long time for it to go flat.

Krystle:

Okay, that's cool. So it's like, it's held in the water better because it's Okay, that's cool.

Adrian:

Yeah, and even after you open, even after you open the bottle and like finish half of it, you can still like drink the second half the next day and it's still carbonated.

Krystle:

That's

Adrian:

Yeah, it's really nice. So it's very refreshing. That with like a, like, like a lemonade with the topping of that is amazing.

Krystle:

yeah, that would be

Adrian:

Yeah.

Lilly:

Well, I told myself I would never drink red wine when we're doing a video recording. That was a lie.

Adrian:

I want to see you smile at the end of this.

Lilly:

I know. It, I'm just like prepping everyone for the red wine teeth later. It's gonna happen.

Adrian:

Yeah.

Krystle:

Adrian will be the only person sober enough to notice.

Adrian:

What's like my sons after they eat the blackberries in our backyard. I'm like, you boys look handsome. So handsome with your purple teeth. Wow.

Lilly:

this is actually a book podcast. I know, I know. Surprise!

Krystle:

Ugh.

Lilly:

read anything good lately? I have only read podcast books, so I'm gonna start with That's all I got.

Sara:

I have been doing some, uh, rush reading to finish my Subjective Chaos reading.

Lilly:

You're a fucking trooper, man.

Sara:

I have so many, so many books that I have to finish by middle of next week. Uh.

Lilly:

You're a machine, I can't believe it. You're doing such a good job.

Sara:

but,

Adrian:

You're doing great, Sarah.

Sara:

I'm doing something anyway. Um, I've started reading, um, The Future by Naomi Alderman, and it's really weird because on the one hand, I'm really enjoying it, Um, like it's a fun sci fi story, and on the other hand, the themes and messages and parallels with the modern day are just so fucking blatant, I'm like, please, I don't need to be hitting the head with a brick. You are hitting me in the head with a brick right now. Um,

Lilly:

Trust the reader. Yeah.

Sara:

so it's, it's both good and bad. Not good.

Adrian:

That is very frustrating. Is it a, is it a physical copy or you're reading digital?

Sara:

No, I'm reading the ebook.

Adrian:

Okay. Cause if it was the physical, it's like, you're literally hitting me in the head with your fucking brick of a preachy book. Um, I read the black tongue thief by Christopher Bielman, which was fantastic. Okay.

Krystle:

Yeah, I've

Adrian:

This is like a beautiful copy too, because I like, it's like, why can't, why can't all publishers just like treat their books equally? It's like the black tongue thief with this nice, like black end papers. It's not that fancy, you know, but it looks nice.

Krystle:

a nice touch,

Adrian:

Yeah, it is. It's like a very simple touch. Yeah, but it's classy. Um, but this is a very funny book. Great protagonist. Um, with just like a very wry sense of humor, which I absolutely love. Um, and I've heard that Christopher actually narrates the audio book and in like a Scottish accent, which, which I've just like, I've just went to listen to the sample afterwards, but it's so thick, like it's so thick. I can imagine people hitting the audio book and be like, I am turned off immediately, or I'm super turned

Krystle:

turned on.

Adrian:

Yeah, exactly. Like, like, I'm just like dripping from listening to this audio book, but this book is fantastic. It's like really cool world. Um, lots of cool, like monsters with like goblins and giants and things like that. Um, but the sort of very, very messy found family, uh, was like a vibe that I could. Very much. Sort of latch on to and the humor is amazing, but there's also touches of like sadness and sort of melancholy and things like that. It felt very well balanced in that sense. And for me, like the closest comparison I can draw is like Kings of the Wild kind of thing by Nick Eames. Um, but yeah, fantastic book. Blacktongue Thief.

Krystle:

We're like totally by accident color matched on, on the books that we got. I also have a yellow.

Adrian:

Crystal.

Krystle:

exactly. Um, it doesn't have nice hand papers, but see it's yellow. Um, anyway, it's called Wild and Wicked Things by Francesca May. And I've only just started it, but I'm still considering it like a good thing that I'm reading because it's one of those books that I bought like two or three years ago. And I actually don't even remember buying it. I, Like,

Adrian:

I'm sure if you looked on your Instagram, you'd have a post where you're like, I went to the bookstore and like, came back with way more than I expected.

Krystle:

I, I don't even know because I don't remember like so completely don't remember, um, but it just like, it just so happened to be exactly the book that I needed right now, which, which it's why it feels really cool where, like, I just got off of reading a couple of books that were like, Aggressively heterosexual in a way that was wearing me out, like I was tired. And I needed something lighter and like a little bit gay. And so this one is, it's like a Gatsby retelling, but make it witches and make it. sapphic, and it's just like, yes, this is, this is what I needed. Thank you for existing. I don't remember buying you, but it must have been magic or something, because I needed this right now, so I'm really enjoying that.

Adrian:

Crystal was just needing some

Krystle:

Yeah, I needed, I need, yeah, yeah, that's not, not a plot twist. I needed some gay witches in my life, and

Lilly:

If you want a rec for afterwards Oh, Sarah, what was the Donahue book? Help

Sara:

Oh, um, um, I know, I know this Ex exit ghost,

Lilly:

There we go. Exit Ghost. It's a, uh, witchy girl Hamlet retelling by Jennifer Donahue. So good.

Krystle:

That does sound really good.

Lilly:

It sounds like if that's the vibe you're feeling, I highly recommend that to be your follow up.

Krystle:

I'm, well, I'm probably gonna do, I'm probably gonna do The Witching Hour next by Anne Rice, um, because I don't know why. I don't know why. But, like, I read it when I was a teenager, and that's 20 years ago now, and I still remember certain parts of that book, which is extremely unusual for me, and it just felt like the right time to revisit it, so. Yeah, I guess I'm on a witch kick. I don't know. I can't explain it.

Lilly:

We all have those phases in our

Krystle:

Yeah. Yeah, I'm just circling back now.

Lilly:

Like the moon, the phases, they come back.

Krystle:

Yeah, exactly!

Lilly:

Well, today we'll be discussing Mushroom Blues by Adrienne M. Gibson.

Krystle:

read and enjoyed that book.

Adrian:

You, you did more than read this book.

Krystle:

It was a lot of fun. And I haven't beta read in a while? Before you asked? No, that's not true. I guess I did Tori's book. Anyway, it was a lot of fun to like, engage with on just like, and I was really nervous when I sent you that big giant email essay because you're, you asked me, Oh, like, what are your thoughts on this specific chapter? I'm like, well, if he's asking specifically, maybe he does actually want an essay. And then I, I, like, I looked at how long that took. That email was and I'm like, oh boy, I hope,

Adrian:

That was, that was exactly,

Sara:

question?

Adrian:

but it was exactly the essay that I needed. No, it wasn't that long. It wasn't that long. It was probably like, don't know, like 800 words.

Krystle:

you're, you're excessively generous, but yeah, I'm glad I'm

Adrian:

Maybe, maybe, maybe 1200, but yeah.

Krystle:

like Okay, we are absolutely on the same page. Like, just your response to it. We are 100 percent on the same page and I, like, I'm, I'm so in this with, with you right now and I'm so ready to get through and, and that feeling, like, it's really special as a writer to just put your big ass stupid opinion out there and then the other person is like, oh, thank you. That's exactly what I was trying to think about and then you're like, I don't know it, it does something to your relationship, even though we were already pretty close.

Adrian:

Yeah. I mean, like, and your feedback was always great because you sent it in, in like Microsoft word documents, but. There was like the comment, the comments on the, on the

Krystle:

Yeah, on the side panel. Yeah.

Adrian:

And I just like, it made me so happy sometimes where I basically see like a step by step buildup. Of your emotional reactions to certain things, because you would a, you would use like, you would reference gifts. You would reference, you would use like emojis and shit like that. And it was just like, and I love like when I were you, you would capitalize just like, Oh, Oh no you didn't. Oh shit. And it's like, you did, you did. And I was just like, I loved all of those sort of like momentous sort of like buildups towards the eventual, like, holy fuck Adrian, like, like things like that just made me so happy.

Krystle:

It must be really fun, like, scrolling through and you start to see me catching on to your world building and you're like, yes, I did, bitch. Just keep reading.

Adrian:

Yeah, so it's very, it was very special to be able to have like you, especially you and MJ along for, for that ride. Was just like, you two basically like made me, you gave me the,

Krystle:

Oh, don't start. I'm gonna get all emotional. Stop it.

Adrian:

you gave me, you gave me like the, the confidence and the momentum to just like. Keep moving. Keep moving.

Krystle:

Yeah. I'm honored. And it was, it was a lot of fun. It was genuinely a lot of fun. And I'm really proud. I'm so proud of, of how huge you've Splashed this book. It deserves it.

Adrian:

Amazing. Crystal.

Lilly:

Crystal was one of your beta readers. At what point in your process did They get to see the draft. Like, where where was that?

Adrian:

this was like towards the end. Cause this was a race to the finish kind of thing where I was like, I was doing like final revision, just basically up until the day of the book, like launched.

Krystle:

Yeah.

Adrian:

So this was like, I set myself with a deadline and I basically pushed myself toward it. Cause if I didn't have a deadline, this book wouldn't have come out this year. Like, I just know how I am. So. Crystal was basically, you saw it like through January, February and into March.

Krystle:

Yeah, that sounds about right. I, like, it, it was a couple of weeks, I remember, till your launch when I got that last chunk and I, I did it in like two days because it's the The tension is built so good, especially like the waiting. Like, cause he sent it to me in like, I guess three quarters,

Adrian:

10 chapter chunks, basically.

Krystle:

What did I say? Three quarters, four quarters. Um, and. And so, yeah, so it's like, sometimes there's a bit of a weight between each one. And it's just like, I need the rest of that book. I need it. So yeah.

Lilly:

Did knowing that the process was so close to the end change the kinds of feedback you gave?

Krystle:

Um, no, I don't think so because. If there were problems, I wanted him to have the opportunity to, uh, address them. So, although like that being said, it, it was a very polished product that I had. So there weren't any

Adrian:

the first, I feel like the first 10 chapters were the most unpolished. And then everything else that I sent you was like more and more confident and polished.

Krystle:

Yeah. And you're, you're just knocking down the domino. I think this, and I think that's very common for us in this industry where like, the early parts of the book, like you're not really sure how it's going. You don't know if the setup is good, but then at some point in that process, you just, you start hitting those dominoes that you've been working on and it's just a matter of knocking them down. And, and that's definitely what I saw where that like that big, the big essay that I mentioned was in like the

Adrian:

Chapter five,

Krystle:

or five. Yeah. Yeah.

Adrian:

Yeah. Quite early

Krystle:

And then. And it was just like, it was just like this think piece of like, well, this is what's implied and this is what you're trying to talk about. And I would expect to see XYZ things. Like if, if this is being given as much weight as I think it deserves, then through the series or through the book, I would want to see these kinds of reactions. And then Adrian's like, yeah, actually, that's exactly what I'm doing. And I was like, okay, cool. You're great. Um, yeah. And so it was just like, it felt like that moment, like there was only small changes to be made after I, I've made that essay and it just seemed to put a little bit of fuel in, into you as far as hitting those points that I was talking about.

Adrian:

And knowing that those are points that I want to touch on in like the future

Krystle:

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Adrian:

Yeah.

Lilly:

much back and forth was there? Or was it, is my book, here is my response? Or was it more of a conversation?

Adrian:

It was mostly like, I would give you like 10 chapter chunks and you would give me your feedback and then we would have like a conversation on like Twitter DM

Krystle:

Yeah.

Adrian:

it. It was basically how it went. Yeah. So it's kind of like pretty much, pretty much exactly that. Like there was never like that much back and forth. And because Crystal's feedback was very clear and the things that I knew needed to be applied, I would apply. In the way that I, that I thought was best. And then we would talk about it a little bit more on Twitter DM. And then she'd be like, where's the next batch pretty much.

Krystle:

I think if I remember correctly, the, the last batch I was in your dms, like as I was reading, because it

Adrian:

Yeah. You're live tweeting me pretty

Krystle:

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I was like taking pictures of my, my, uh, iPad on my lap. Like, oh, you motherfucker Um, but then, but more. The more serious stuff, it was definitely like, okay, so I put the comments in the, in the actual file and then one of them I followed up more verbosely in an email, but otherwise it was, it was pretty It was pretty, it was a, you were easy to talk to, which, which is nice.

Adrian:

Cause I think it's just a matter of like our relationship too. Like with you and MJ, there's like basically no, there was like very little ego in the equation where it's like, neither of you were trying to enforce your ideas upon the book and I understood the things that you were critiquing. And my. Like ego was able to just kind of piss off for a little bit that I could receive your criticism in a very, very thoughtful way that I would be able to just run with that basically. So it was like, there was very little conflict in like the whole process. So I was very happy that it was like, I could confide in you too, specifically.

Krystle:

yeah, it is a really vulnerable place to be, so, you know, no, no shade to some people who have trouble receiving feedback, but I can't really, I can't,

Adrian:

Yeah, I mean, I say it, I say it all the time. Like tattooing just basically told my ego to to go fuck itself and like just kind of figure out ways to better navigate receiving criticism. And usually the most like blatant criticism would come from myself anyways.

Krystle:

yeah, that's true.

Adrian:

like learning how to deal with my own internal kind of battles before anyone else.

Lilly:

So mentioning tattoos I have to ask, is writing a book just an opportunity to share your pet obsession with the world? I ask both of you, because I've read both of your books and I know both of you as people.

Adrian:

I mean, it's like, it's not singular. It's like pet obsessions, plural.

Krystle:

plural, big plural,

Adrian:

Yeah. Like anyone who reads his book is like, this dude is like ridiculously obsessed with mushrooms, but then, you know, like there are tattoo aspects to it and the next book that I'm going to release, like one of the POV characters is basically a, a tattoo artist for like a gangster crime family, um, so. Yeah. And music too. Like he, there's like music scenes in there and mushroom blues. There's a, there's the scene in, um, the moldy, the moldy rose, which is kind of like an underground jazz bar that, and then, and then on top of that, it's like, uh, Henrietta's basically, uh, cassette collection that she's inherited from her dad and the fact that she like, like her, her finding sort of like respite in listening to these Pilts rock. Albums, which was basically like my, um, play on Krautrock, uh, the genre from Germany. Um, that for me is basically like how I interact with music in my day to day life. It's like, yes, I was a music journalist in my early twenties, but when it comes to music now, if I'm severely frustrated or if I'm like feeling very overwhelmed, I put on music as a way of sort of like grounding myself and for Henrietta, all the moments where she's. Using music. It's an attempt sometimes successful, sometimes not so much. If you're in a car chase, not

Krystle:

yeah, that's what,

Adrian:

to kind of ground herself in sort of like an emotional, an emotionally steady state of mind. Um, so it's like, yeah, so much of the stuff. That happens in the book is like my obsessions, just being like, Hey, some, not some, like a little bit more subtle than others, but yeah.

Krystle:

Yeah, I'm finding that even more so in the current project that I'm working on, um, in that I'm more conscious, conscious of myself doing it. Like, I don't think I realized how, um, how much I was exposing myself when I was writing Brightwatch. Like, I don't think. Just from the standpoint of not really knowing what I was doing because it was my, my first, you know, big one. Um, I didn't realize how personal it was becoming, whereas now I'm doing it on purpose. Like, I, I've made this conscious choice to, like, put in these things that have had really long roots for me, um, including mushrooms. Um,

Adrian:

a, it's like controlled vulnerability as opposed to bright wash, which was kind of just like

Krystle:

yeah, yeah. I'm going to write a book. What do you mean? Everything that I believe is in the book. Oh, oops. You know, um, yeah. And so, and so it's that same thing where, like, with, with this project, it's, it's just, yeah, it's, it's intentional vulnerability and it's really interesting to see how it changed the story from, like, my original idea. Yeah. Um, which didn't have mushrooms in it and it didn't have like the main character didn't have a kid and like all like this big list of things and and it didn't feel like my book yet like it it wasn't it wasn't me yet it was just kind of generic um yeah it was just generic um And I, I lost interest while it was generic, and then figuring out the things that made it me, made it important enough to stick with it. And so now, um, I'm a little bit over halfway through. I'm looking at potentially finishing this draft before I travel, and having it in the hands of its first editor while I'm gone. And so like, that was the difference. I thought of this idea over a year ago. I was, I was planning this idea, Adrian, when we met, um, in Toronto last year. And then, and then it just died because it wasn't me yet. And then, um, I don't know, like three months ago, suddenly I knew what it needed and now it's almost done. So yeah, it's definitely,

Adrian:

And it's probably the fastest you've ever drafted anything, too.

Krystle:

um, no, but it's definitely, just because, because my life, but like, it's, it's reached that point now where I wake up in the morning. I'm thinking about it. I stand in the kitchen in the afternoon thinking about it while I'm cooking. I go to the gym. I'm listening to Michael Pollan to think about it. Um, and then I come home and I think about it some more and somewhere in there, you know, I get a few thousand words out. So it's certainly the most dedicated I've been at least, um, to the same level as, as Brightwash and, and Brick and Bone. Um, and it's, it's the difference between finishing a project and, and just not me.

Sara:

So both of you are parents, um, and you both have novels that center around solving the murders of children. Uh, how, how do you handle that emotionally?

Krystle:

every now and then we just like, man, in a fantasy novel you wouldn't have good chances. No, that's not a real answer.

Adrian:

Yo, if you were Neo Konoko, you'd be fucking done, dude. But, no, for me, it's kind of like, the book, like, Mushroom Blues started, the seedlings for Mushroom Blues, the spores for Mushroom Blues started with, like, me becoming a dad. And realizing like, okay, I've got this little like baby here because when my first son was born, he's like super vulnerable,

Krystle:

Yeah.

Adrian:

vulnerable that there are like dozens, if not hundreds of things that could kill him every single day. Um, and as he got older, it was like, I just started thinking more about more and more about like, okay, the world is a really fucked up place. And there's just like a multitude of variability variables that could happen to. any human being over the course of their life, whether they're like one year old or whether they're 80 years old. And so Mushroom Blues kind of started with this, like, this like idea of like, my fears as a parent for what the world can do to a child, whether it's like, Within the house, whether it's external, there are just so many, so many moments in a child's life where things can just go wrong. And it just, you know, like I'd read Crystal's book and absolutely loved it. And she, she, she kind of gave me the confidence to be like, I can tackle dark themes sort of need the creative process of writing this book in order to figure out how the hell I feel about it. Um, how I feel about the vulnerability of human beings as they carry out their lives and especially children where there are so many things that can just kind of like Mold them and shape them in destructive ways, whether it's like, think of like how many, how many of us have like really horrible habits, you know, like things that you can basically trace back to your childhood is like, I didn't receive enough discipline, or I didn't learn how to regulate my emotions or all these different things that like, as you get older, you're like, God, why the fuck do I do that? And it's like, many of us go to therapy and realize like, Oh, Hey, like I can trace this back, like all the way back to my childhood. And in the case of the children in mushroom blues, many of them are in this position, like the child that gets murdered. Uh, and and washes up on the beach is there because of the ways in which adults took advantage of a situation and the innocence and naivete of Children in order to rope them into. Basically like working for gangsters and being there, being there like blackmailed servants kind of thing. And there's not just one dead child. There's like multiple, there's like two dead children that show up, but there are also multiple children that are. Appearing later on and, and some who've disappeared and you kind of, it's kind of implied like something similar happened to them, um, but then there's the opportunity for salvation from this very, very dark situation. And so it's like, this was a way for me to. Sort out, like, the emotional rollercoaster that is becoming apparent and realizing that you're responsible for this little creature

Krystle:

yeah, definitely, um, a lot of, a lot of my answer is similar, just that, um, I've been a parent a little bit longer than Adrian, um, Yeah, yeah, a lot longer, half my life now, um, which is really weird to sit with my, my children. My oldest children are now the same age that I was when I became pregnant. So it's really weird to sit with that but it's also part of why it's such a big part of my writing. Um. And Brightwash specifically is, is asking a question of, you know, what, what are we as a society willing to give up, um, for convenience? And in that question, obviously is a really complex answer. Um, but for that story, I felt like children in a way where we are, we're, we're, we're, we're, we're. at our most human, uh, when we're young and we don't have all of these chains of, um, our respective societies, um, trying to restrain us into our box. And so that, that vulnerability and that pure essence became very much the analogy for what is given up in the name of. Life being easier for usually for rich people. Like, let's be honest. It's not easier for us.

Adrian:

this, in this context, too, it's like the, the progress is kind

Krystle:

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And, um, yeah. And so that route was just like questioning who, who, who is at the highest risk when we, we as society make horrific choices. And That's very much our children and, and how, how do we step out of line, um, to save our children? And that's, so it's a, it's a very similar route of just demanding that a protagonist protects children that didn't have a chance. It's an

Lilly:

When you're writing a

Krystle:

extremely heavy question. Yeah.

Lilly:

It starts with dead children. I

Krystle:

Yeah, it

Lilly:

expect it to

Adrian:

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Krystle:

Yeah, I guess so.

Adrian:

Chapter one in each book. Yeah.

Krystle:

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Lilly:

So these are also mysteries. We don't know why these poor children have died until a little bit farther along in your stories.

Krystle:

the authors have issues. Sorry. Other than that, yeah.

Lilly:

As a writer, do you want the reader to be solving the case as they read? Or do you sort of want them to follow along with the main character, just along for the ride?

Adrian:

I think it depends on the kind of mystery,

Krystle:

Yeah. I was gonna say.

Adrian:

cause both of ours are kind of like police procedural in a lot of ways.

Krystle:

But yours is much more so.

Adrian:

yeah, but I feel like police procedural in particular is the kind of mystery that benefits from having the reader just like, half a step behind the protagonist, as opposed to giving them too many opportunities to basically solve it for themselves far too early. Um, so it's like the police procedural provides ample clues, but it's not like a locked room mystery or anything like that, where all the clues are provided. Um, or a cozy mystery where it's like the environment is much more kind of contained, but police procedural it's like There are going to be moments where you will figure out at the exact same moment that the protagonist does, maybe just like a tiny, tiny bit earlier.

Krystle:

before

Adrian:

Yeah. Half second before. Yeah. Or it's like, you will be hit in the face by some sort of like

Krystle:

Yeah.

Adrian:

a reveal that will just like floor you kind of thing. So there's, there's a very small window in which I think something like police procedural works. Um, where it's like, you have to kind of guide the reader in a much more, um, sort of controlled way.

Krystle:

Yeah. Yeah, and I think, um, for Brightwash it's even, it's a little bit less so because, um, Toshui isn't necessarily able to solve it himself, just because of, you know, the whole situation. So, him solving it is kind of less the point of that book. Like it, it's, it's solved by the end, but that story is also about the structure that allowed it to happen. And that's almost more important, um, than the moment that he solves it. And So the balance is a little bit different between the two books, I would say.

Adrian:

Even though they're both like very character focused, I think like. Yeah. It's a, it's a tricky balance to be like, I'm going to make your, I'm going to trick your brain along the way into like focusing more on something else, um, you know, where it's like throughout the legend of the right washes, like you become more and more entwined in yes, Toshua is investigating this thing,

Krystle:

Yeah. Yeah.

Adrian:

of it is like Toshua

Krystle:

yeah.

Adrian:

like how he ties into the greater picture. Yeah.

Krystle:

same could be said with Hen. It's just like a, a slightly, um, It's more focused for her, where she is more focused, I guess. Um, so like it's a similar thing where her solving it is only half the plot, the other half of the plot is her uh, growing enough that she would care about the answer.

Sara:

So, changing gear just slightly, um, the world building that you do in this, in this book is fantastic. Um, and you have this whole new society, the, the Hoponese society. Um, which is pretty heavily influenced by Japanese culture. Um, how do you balance that, like, influenced by versus cultural appropriation?

Adrian:

That's like, that's something that is like a, that is, that came up before I think Adrian Tchaikovsky and I had a, had a, like a email kind of back and forth about that. Um, and it's something that I've been asked in interviews, like doing the book tour and then doing stuff post launch as well. So I've, I've had time to think about it. Which is obviously helpful for a spoiler cast, but,

Krystle:

Yeah,

Adrian:

um, for me, it was really important to be, um, just very thoughtful and kind of rooted in, in sort of like a love and appreciation for Japanese culture when it came to creating this society. And I think I spent so much time before I even started writing mushroom blues, doing the world building. illustrating things like so much of my world building process was drawing just drawing the fungal people drawing sort of like haponese food and architecture and all this kind of stuff so i had an idea like a visual reference point for what this world looked like like how these people looked and how these different pieces fit together. And so for me, it's basically like, I never came at anything from the angle of, I want someone to come away from reading this passage or reading this interaction or whatever. Um, thinking that the author wants to preach about, you know, the plight of the fungal people in such a way that it's like blatantly trying to get a reaction out of you. I did everything in such a way where, yes, I'm basing it on Japanese culture, which is a country that I absolutely love. And it's like the, this goes like so deep, you know, like. My mom and dad showed me a project from when I was like five in, in kindergarten. And the project was like, pick a country that you are really interested in and tell us why, but it's like a, basically like a traveling travel brochure, uh, was kind of the idea of it and I picked Japan and I was five years old. And I was saying, I like samurai and I like sushi and I like anime and these kinds of things. And it's like, that's from five years old. You know, like this is barely after I can remember things like my oldest memories don't go back much farther than, than that age. And so for me, it's kind of like accruing that love and appreciation over the course of my lifetime, expanding it to Japanese history, expanding it to, uh, Shinto and Buddhist religions, uh, expanding it to the cuisine and like actually cooking Japanese food, myself going to Japanese restaurants. My wife and I went to Japan together for weeks and basically got to explore Tokyo and Kyoto and Osaka and Hiroshima. The areas surrounding them. And so to be able to like immerse myself there, learn a little bit of the language, communicate with the people, like explore. The environment that they created and live in for me was just like so much raw inspiration that it's almost kind of like hard to comprehend until it comes out in a project like this

Krystle:

Yeah.

Adrian:

where the Hapanese people are so much more nuanced than especially in cyberpunk, which is a genre that I love, but it's very, very shallow in its representation of Asian cultures and its use of Asian cultures. Especially as like an atmospheric and visual motif, which for me, it's like, I love these. I love the genre. Like I love the films. I love the anime. I love the books, but a lot of the Asian inspiration in cyberpunk feels very tacked on, you know, like Blade Runner is one of my favorite movies, but he doesn't need to eat at a fucking rainy noodle stall because it adds nothing to the story. Nothing like zero, zero. It is just a set piece. With a visual motif for him to be in and then receive more information that has nothing to do with the environment that he's in. And so everything that I did in terms of like, where Henry Henrietta is, what she's doing there, who she's interacting with, all of that is meant to Not only give Henrietta a place to sort of expand her characterization and, and, um, search for clues and sort of broaden her perspective of the investigation. It's more that there's always like Like a double play going on where it's like, yes, I'm working on Henrietta, but also who are the other characters in the room? How can I make Koji feel more individual and more nuanced and more fleshed out? How can I make even, you know, characters like Rio or characters like, um, Shikaku, these, Hannah, like all these different characters, how can I give them their moment, even though they're not a POV character, they're not the protagonist, but I didn't want to create this like cookie cutter homogenous society where everyone, especially with fun, with fungi, where it's like, These are sort of like hive organisms, but what I wanted to do was to give them sort of like hive like biological tools for communication, for, um, for the way that they organize the way that their communities are sort of organized. Formed the architecture and the way that they're sort of like actual physical environment relates to them, but at the same time, every single fungal has their own individual motivations, their own desires and their own means of achieving those based on. The things that are available to them, the people that they're in contact with. And so it's like, yes, I could have made it really homogenous. And I think that's one of the biggest problems when it comes to representing another culture is that it's creating this like blanket without. Any distinction of who the individuals are within that. And I think that's the problem when it comes to, uh, a lot of the time with Asian representation. Yeah. Indigenous representation, Crystal, you and I have talked about this before where there is just like a generalization made about these people and that doesn't do anything to achieve more, a more nuanced story and a more interesting story, but also characters that you can really become attached to when everyone feels the same, they're doing the same thing. They're reacting to things the same way. It's like, what the fuck is the point of that? You know what I mean? And so with the fungals for me. It was just so important to give each of them different motivations based on this is a post war city, life sucks, but everyone is using the resources available to them, whether they're taking advantage in a very, very malicious way, or whether they're more community driven and are trying to sort of generate more connection as opposed to destruction. And so for me, it's just like, there was so much ample opportunity to. Yes. Use Japan as sort of like a, an inspiration and a jumping off point. But then I was able to make it more my own through, you know, like the language and the, the slang that they have, the religion that they have, their biology and their ways of communicating with each other, and ultimately what I wanted to do was to make, you know, The people who are reading this to sort of like empathize more with the fungal people than the humans themselves and,

Sara:

The humans are not, are not particularly, uh,

Adrian:

yeah, yeah, but ultimately, yeah, but like ultimately what that does is like that gives more agency and more power to a subjugated people. Where it's like, yes, at the beginning, like, Henrietta is super racist. She's microphobic and she hates mushrooms and she doesn't want to be around fungi or koji or any of this other stuff.

Krystle:

Yeah, she's taking, she's taking a medication through it. Like,

Adrian:

yeah, she's like taking antifungal meds because they're sort of like this, uh, propagandized notion that, that. I mean, obviously like we all know, like mold, like mold can, can infect you in certain ways, but they don't really understand it. And so they're taking these antifungal meds as like a, as like a propaganda, uh, campaign turn habit and, and, and that kind of the, the meaning of that and these ideas will basically bear fruit in later books in the series where we begin to understand like the truth about how the fungal people. Were sort of created, um, like how, how that branch of humanity came to be, but also through Henrietta's eyes, understanding like the truth of what her country pervade as, as like the ultimate truth, um, against a people that they were occupying. And so it's like, what is truth and what is truth on a, on a societal and governmental level versus what is truth on an individual level. Um, and so it was really an exploration for me to be able to have the fungal people be much like psychedelics have opened my eyes to so many things. Fungi are kind of the way in which Henrietta's eyes are opened to the realities of the fungal people, the realities of her relationship towards them, the realities of her relationship towards her own country, her own home country of Caprinia. Yeah. And the perceived truth that her government was espousing for years and years and years that she believed, and her sense of reality just starts to crumble. And that kind of lays the groundwork for the three sequels to really put Henrietta in a position of Choosing between the fungals or her own people.

Lilly:

I'm so glad you touched upon that, because I have to admit, when I first read the description of this book and started it, I had a very, uh, inaccurate understanding of what was going on. Obviously, the book explained it to me. I figured it out eventually. But, When I first started reading, I definitely thought that the fungals were a result of the war. And I think this was a result of, like, you know, the World War II coded things. I was like, oh, nuclear fallout, they became fungal. Um, that was clearly not the case. Like, chapter two, I was like, okay, I misunderstood what

Adrian:

That's kind of, that's kind of like the coolest misunderstanding that I've heard

Krystle:

Yeah, that's a really interesting story though.

Lilly:

Great. I'll take that. Yeah, I was confused in the best way.

Krystle:

Yeah. Yeah.

Lilly:

I don't know if this will spoil further stories, and if so, let me know in the comments. We can just skip it. Like, I have so many questions, like, uh, what is going on? Because there is verbiage, is it all just Henrietta's perspective around infected animals? Because we see infected animals, or what she calls infected animals.

Adrian:

fact, it is in big, big quotations.

Lilly:

Yeah, is that just, is that the answer? Big, big

Krystle:

Big, big, big quotations. Yeah.

Sara:

like, so I will say for, for 99 percent of this book, I was like, Oh, this, her, her viewpoints on being infected is propaganda. Like there's, there's nothing to it. This, this pill that she's taking, it's, you know, it's not actually doing anything. And then at the very end, when she kind of. Like, she gets high on the, on the tea, and kind of starts tapping into stuff. I was like, is there something to it? Heh

Adrian:

this is, this is stuff that I don't want to go into just yet. Cause it is going to be explored in the, in, in broader fungal verse. But

Krystle:

yeah, I,

Adrian:

say like, go ahead,

Krystle:

definitely tell that that was, that was a hook that was going to have legs like that was the, it, it has the feeling of a red herring in that it's not what we think, but it's still something. So yeah, I can, I can definitely tell it's got legs through the series and I'm really excited to

Adrian:

And, and not just this series, like that'll be something that's explored in, in different series within the fungal verse. So like Spore City that, yeah, that's, that's going to be touched on in there, but in terms of like how the fungal people came to be, like, I just looked at human history and the fact that, that, Homo sapiens are not the only branch of humans. And so, um, there's specifically, uh, I can't remember the exact scientific name, but it's like homo florence, something like that homo florensis or something along those lines. But basically it's like a branch of human of, of like ancient human ancestors, but like, you know, cousins that ended up isolated in a part of Indonesia They existed there at a time when there was a, basically a land bridge between Southeast Asia and into Indonesia. And once the sea levels rose and that population became isolated, what they actually saw was a shrinking of that particular gene pool. And so because they were isolated to such a small environment, that environment didn't. Uh, facilitate, didn't sustain, didn't facilitate the size of a regular human. And so basically they shrunk and it's like, uh, a form of like genetic dwarfism where they basically were like shorter than, I think it was like three or four feet based on the environment that they're in. And so I like started thinking more about that kind of stuff and like what. Environments can do to change isolated populations of human beings. And if tens of thousands, if not millions of years ago, a particular subset of human beings ended up on an Island archipelago that just so happened to be an environment that was really, uh, basically like an ecology that was really potent and rich with fungi, and how over time, if those fungi were to consistently interact with those human beings, what would happen? And, and for me, it's like the idea of,

Krystle:

would, like, absolutely. You know, like,

Adrian:

and this is not like, this is basically like, I, I sometimes use the last of us as a comparison because it's the best representation of fungi in popular culture today, but whereas the last of us kind of goes this route of like fungi as a source of zombification.

Krystle:

Yeah.

Adrian:

the route of like symbiosis and how fungi would sort of view us not to personify it too much, but, um, how fungi would view humans as a very fertile host. And the ways in which they could work together.

Krystle:

in this house, it's okay. You can, you can personify them.

Adrian:

But yeah, it's just like, I just looked at human history and human genealogy and the ways in which, you know, humans were able to interbreed with Neanderthal, wink wink, um, and, and different, yeah, different, different branches of, um, Apes that eventually became different branches of humans and the ways in which they were able to interact and interbreed and develop their own languages, but also adapt to particular environments for me was really fascinating. And so that was just kind of like, Fertile ground for me to let my creativity blossom.

Lilly:

Henrietta has such a skewed perception of the fungal people. I think my favorite thing, you bring it up several times throughout this book, is how, oh, but they're eating mushrooms, that's so crazy. And all I could think was, girl, you're made out of meat!

Adrian:

Yeah. Yeah. It was really funny. Cause, uh, the blog fanfly addicts, I don't write for them anymore, but like, I, my podcast is kind of like a part of that and yeah. And, and I'm in like the group chat and there, there's like particular things Topics that, that are recurring within, within fanfatic cannibalism is one of them feet are another, uh, mushrooms because of me, I think is, is another one, uh, but there's also someone on the team who's a biologist. So

Krystle:

Yeah, I think it started more like when other people started making mushroom jokes. So it's like, it's because of you, like, you're the, you're

Adrian:

they were aimed to, they were aimed at me at

Krystle:

then some

Adrian:

And now it's kind of like, yeah, everyone's, everyone's been.

Krystle:

nerds. Yeah.

Adrian:

Yeah, exactly. Um, so the cannibalism was funny. Like they asked me like, does your book have cannibalism in it? And just kind of jokingly. And I was like,

Krystle:

yeah, kind of.

Adrian:

So that, that for me is like, is one of those things where like Koji addresses it specifically. Like there, there is a scene in this restaurant called Danban, um, diner. And. Everyone around it's like, if you think about situations where a country has undergone severe trauma and severe devastation, like a war, uh, so I looked at post World War Two, Japan and how. Once the bombs were dropped. So it's like, yes, Nagasaki got destroyed. Uh, Hiroshima got destroyed. Tokyo was also fire bombed to like a insane degree where that city, so much of what it's, what exists there today was built after 1945, um, that so much of that city was just leveled, but there are still so many people who are living and homeless and what are the kinds of situations that evolve from that? And so one of the things that always crops up is starvation and food shortages. And what do these people eat in order to survive? You hear stories of like people trying to live off of, you know, eating leather shoes and, and just like really horrifying circumstances. And so I figured like in a culture and, and society, like the fungals, Where they are literally made of mushrooms, would they do in a situation where they were subjugated to food shortages and, and a military occupation that was essentially taking a lot of their food supply away from them. Um, and so I was like, okay, like maybe, you know, they're, they're rationed with things like rice and what have you, but. You see it in certain scenes like Emiko's apartment, she has a kitchen made of mycelium, but then she has a little mushroom farm growing from her countertop. And so it's like things like these where I thought like fungal people would eat fungal fungi as a as a way to sustain themselves in a situation, it would be a regular part of their diet. Uh, it would also be tied into their religious beliefs in terms of how they view the cycles of nature, cycles of life and death and decay and rebirth and how all of those things are intertwined. There are scenes that are going to come later in the series, which I'm really excited about, which is particularly like, uh, funeral rites and practices and how, how the fungal people approach. The thought of death and the ways in which a body is given back to the earth. And so in their minds, because they have the, the fungal net, which is their. Sort of brain to brain communication network where they, they're able to basically emote to each other. They're able to read each other's emotions and intentions, but they're also able to obscure that information much like blocking shitty people on, on Twitter or whatever.

Krystle:

Yeah.

Adrian:

Um, those kinds of things, that interconnectedness, their ability to sort of, uh, connect with past memories. Uh, not just their, their own, but the, the memories of other people, the ways in which all of those things coalesce to me, gave me the sense that like, of course they would eat mushrooms. Why wouldn't they, you know, like they've, they have this interconnectedness as a people who share this, this land, who share this sort of this language, this way of perceiving one another, this sense of community and connection that they have is so different from humans. That I figured, yeah, no problem. Like they would eat, they would eat mushrooms. But from, for Henrietta as a microphobe, for her to see mushroom people eating mushrooms to her, that is just like the epitome of disgust. And at the same time brings to mind questions of things like cannibalism. And so that was a really cool moment for me to be able to spark this conversation between Henrietta and Koji where he's so nonchalant about it. And Henrietta is just, yeah, Henrietta is just like, can not, she just fucking cannot, but, but Koji is like, girl, don't even, you know, like,

Krystle:

Your mouth is too busy flapping. You should just eat. We can get on with our

Adrian:

eat the fucking food, eat the fucking food. Yeah.

Lilly:

eat mushrooms like asking someone to be vegan? Like, it's, it's, yeah, you're made out of the same thing, but aren't we all?

Krystle:

yeah,

Adrian:

yeah, exactly. It's like, we're all like us as humans, like we're just meat constructs. And so for us to be able to basically like have that, that, um, that separation in our own minds, like it is just a construct, our classification of what is meat and what is consumable and what isn't, and for the fungal people. You know, that, that construct doesn't really exist because they have a much healthier relationship between them and their perception of nature, their perception of their own religion and, and the things that come from the earth and how those cycles work versus, I think, especially Western humans, like in our own world, but also in, in this world. That there's that there are these like distinctions between, um, what they can find in a supermarket

Krystle:

yeah,

Adrian:

what the reality of the situation is like someone who doesn't know what a chicken looks like, looks like, but they eat chicken every day as like a filet.

Krystle:

as a culture, we tend to be really squeamish about death. Um, yeah, so it was a really interesting play on not just Henrietta and Koji, but also, um, and Henrietta and Koji having a conversation with us, the reader. Yeah.

Adrian:

was like my Anthony Bourdain moment in

Krystle:

Yeah.

Adrian:

was that diner scene and Crystal called it out. She was like, yeah.

Krystle:

would be so proud. Yeah. Yeah, it was a really good spot.

Lilly:

that's fascinating to me that that's your answer. Because I thought it was going to be something along the lines of, They have mushroom furniture, and no one would be aghast that someone ate a chair. That's not cannibalism. Like, everyone has a difference between a conscious thing and a not conscious thing. I, like, yeah, it's just

Adrian:

right. But if, but, but, but over the course of the book, it's like, it's clear that. The environment itself is conscious on some level, like it's interacting with the fungal people themselves. Like there's the, the, uh, the scene on, on the shelf where they're being chased and it's kind of like the mycelial environment itself is alive and it's interacting with the emotional responses of the people who inhabit the shelf. And so it's kind of like the environment is almost attacking Henrietta. And so for the fungal people, there's a. Sort of intelligence and consciousness that permeates everything about them, their architecture, their lives, all of it, you know, down to food. So it's like a much more nuanced reflection upon how we could think about. Everything that we do in our lives and how all these different systems and interconnect. And like Crystal said, it's like Western society is so squeamish in a lot of ways. And it's like for me to come to South America. South America has been westernized in a lot of ways, but there are certain things like, you know, you want to eat a chicken, like kill it, you know, um, raise it first, put in the effort,

Krystle:

it with respect.

Adrian:

treat it with respect, but also kill it with respect and eat it with respect and use every part of it and do not waste a single thing. Whereas so many people in. Like think about, think about just words like pig versus pork, that Western society has distinguished the food with a different name than the animal itself. So that degree of separation makes it easier for people to consume another animal because they're eating pork. They're not eating a pig. They're just eating a pork chop. And so that for me, it was like a huge part of it where, you know, Living in Ecuador really opened my eyes to the realities of food and sort of like the systems that, that are involved in food. There's a lot less sort of industrial agriculture, industrial farming in South America than there is in the United States in particular. And so for me, it's like the fungal people, Integrated with nature. They're integrated with all these different systems. They're integrated with the rice that they grow or the mushrooms that they grow in their kitchen. And when they consume them, there is a much more connection going on there. A much more conscious connection where it's like, they literally have like a phrase that they say every time they eat so that they are paying respect to the source of this nourishment. And the people who prepared it and every step in that ladder. And so it's like, nothing is nothing is, is blinding them to the realities of what life offers, but also what is necessary in order to sustain a life. So

Sara:

So I want to talk about Koji just a little bit, um, because we haven't talked about him enough. Uh, he's one of my, he's one of my favorite characters.

Adrian:

is honestly like, he's, he's like the fan favorite across the

Sara:

under, understandably so. Um, he is, um, Makes this very difficult decision to, uh, join the police force that is complicit in subjugating his people. Uh, and, you know, he, he does it because he wants to change things from the inside, et cetera, et cetera. Historically that. That doesn't really work out that well. So can you just talk a little bit more about, about that and his motive motivations and how that is going to affect like things down the line.

Adrian:

yeah, so that's kind of like the public pitch that like the public reasoning that he that he gives. It's kind of like he tries to sort of convince his cousin and his aunt. about his, his reasons for being on the police force, even though they judge him severely for it, there's, they say that, that they're using you, um, and for him at that point kind of feels like he's just being ignorant. He's being stupid. Um, but then over the course of the book, it becomes clear that, um, Specifically Captain Ridgeway, um,

Sara:

There's something going on.

Adrian:

yeah, they're, they're, this, this, this will be explored more, but, but there are ways in which Ridgeway is using Koji, um, sort of as like, as like a secret interrogator for the NKPD, uh, because they couldn't figure out a way in order to effectively interrogate fungal people. Um, but. He was basically blackmailed into becoming a part of the NKPD and You know, under the guise of a beat cop, is actually, you know, like their prime interrogator slash torturer, I would kind of veer towards, towards, uh, torture. And there's an interrogation scene in, I believe, chapter 26, uh, and that chapter is called Mindhunter. that explicitly shows, there are like steps towards revealing like what Koji's actually doing for the NKPD, but that's the one where we actually get to see it. And Henrietta, based on her sort of growing relationship with Koji or her, like warm her, warming up to him is utterly horrified by what's going on. That Koji is being used to use the Fungals own biological network, the the fungal net, to get into the minds of the criminals and basically torture them inside their own brains to the point where they, they crack. And reveal the information that, that they need. And this information is needed in the context of the investigation, but at the same time, it's also a moment where I think that's one of the biggest moments between Henrietta and Koji for her to sort of realize like how she really feels about him and how her attitudes towards the fungals is really, really starting to change. And so that was like a really hard scene to write. Um,

Krystle:

I was

Adrian:

I think that one.

Krystle:

I was really excited when I saw that and that sounds so, such a gruesome answer. It was such a horrific thing to be excited about, but the reason that I was excited about it was, it opens the door to say, so many interesting things about like government overreach. And, um, it was like my last essay that I gave you, like in the series, what I want to say is, and you're like, yeah, I'm going there. And it was just like, it, it, government overreach, but also like, okay, in this one specific instance, we can believe that it's, it's, it's worth it. And it's important, but. Man, that is, that is some civil rights abuses right there. Like that's not okay. And so I like the whole way through, I know, I knew that you had really interesting things to say that I was on board with, but that was like the moment of like, Oh, absolutely. We are a hundred percent on the same page with what this series wants to do. And yeah, that was a really good, um, Character beat for He Cause if she had seen that earlier, it wouldn't have been as

Adrian:

It wouldn't have hit as hard. Yeah.

Krystle:

it was a really good, um, signal that we were in really good hands with somebody who knew what their series was trying to say.

Adrian:

Yeah, because I was talking earlier about, um, sort of government propaganda, but also sort of, um, perceived truths and, and, and truths that are

Krystle:

Yeah.

Adrian:

by a government. And like that whole thing kind of started based on. What I'd seen of, you know, the Afghanistan and Iraq war in the United States, basically in the entire fallout of nine 11 and the terror wars, um, in the Western world and how that played out in the Middle East and how government overreach and sort of like institutional power becomes so

Krystle:

And governmental vengeance, yeah.

Adrian:

Yeah. But specifically like, like Guantanamo Bay and the fact that. A government could justify something like waterboarding

Krystle:

Yeah.

Adrian:

in order to interrogate a terrorist. Yeah,

Krystle:

it was okay, like

Adrian:

exactly.

Krystle:

Yeah.

Adrian:

Like that, that kind of thing is just, it blows my mind. But at the same time, it's like certain circumstances would drive people within institutions to justify a means to an end. And so for, for captain Ridgeway, based on the Post war environment of Neo Konoko, he felt it was justified to use Koji in this way in order to convict the people that were making this environment worse. But. By doing so, Ridgeway is,

Krystle:

Opening a door that

Adrian:

is basically like darkening his own morality and opening the door for worse things and bringing Koji down with him. And I love, like, I love what this relationship between like, why Ridgeway. Basically like the relationship between Ridgway and Koji and how that came to be and the ways in which it played out and the ways in which it's going to play out even further in the three sequels, I'm just really excited about that, because then I could talk about it more and basically like,

Krystle:

You don't have to be like, Uh, there's interesting things that'll happen later.

Adrian:

yeah, but that but that particular interrogation for me was like, I knew I wanted to have an interrogation because that's one of the beats within police procedurals that I absolutely love, but I thought, how can I make this interrogation, like, very different from the average interrogation in a, in a police procedural, because most of the time, it's like the good cop and the bad cop and blah, blah, blah. Um, but. Because

Krystle:

like, None of that

Adrian:

science fiction, yeah, I'm like gonna literally just like extend mycelium from my fingers and just like invade your fucking head. Um, so I thought like, this is such a good opportunity because of like the science fictional, like fantastical elements to it. This interrogation so much more powerful than it otherwise would be. And like Crystal said, that was also like that scene played so many different roles. It was like revealing clues, uh, revealing more about, uh, Sutomu and his sort of like role, yeah, like the crime that he committed and the, him being a serial killer and all this kind of stuff. But also. Uh, Ridgway's character and his relationship with everyone in the room, uh, Henrietta, her relationship with Koji, uh, Koji's relationship with her, Koji's backstory, but also like revealing so much more about him as a character. That scene was just like, man, it was balancing so many fucking, so many hats, but it

Krystle:

was the dominoes scene. Like, a lot of stuff fell down. It was really It was

Sara:

It's interesting to me how you talk about the relationship between Ridgway and Kwoji, because obviously, I mean, there is this power imbalance. Pardon?

Adrian:

No,

Krystle:

It's not a great relationship, but

Sara:

no, no, no, it's, it's not, it's not a great relationship, but, um, there, there is, so there is this power imbalance, there, there is this, um, terrible thing that he is making Koji do, but at the same time, I kind of get the feel, just from what we have seen in the other, um, Characters that Ridgway is, I don't know if I want to say less racist, because I don't know if that's true, but at least more open minded about the fungal people. Um, and so it's a really interesting dichotomy and I, I look forward to, to seeing you explore it more in, you know, the next couple of books.

Krystle:

Yeah,

Adrian:

I think he, he's more, he's more nuanced about it. The thing with Ridgway is that. Um, he viewed the fungal people as, as an opportunity, as opposed to he, as, as an opportunity for a very specific purpose, where it's like, he doesn't necessarily have empathy for them and their plight and everything that's going on with them. It's like, he, he has a fascination with what they're capable of. In terms of like, there are so many humans in this, in this book that are like, that are not interested in the fungals and their, the fungal net and their biology and these different aspects of them. Um, whereas Ridgway was able to sort of pick apart the different, the different aspects of the fungal people and was able to twist this particular one to his specific purposes.

Sara:

a way, I find that makes him a much more interesting character because,

Adrian:

Yeah.

Sara:

like, there's so much there and, It still feels like, even though he's terrible in a different way,

Krystle:

And

Sara:

um,

Krystle:

he's the kind of character that, like, depending on the arc that you have for him, he could push one way or the other from, like, a fellow protagonist, if he grew a little bit of a conscience. Or he could push the

Adrian:

Get way worse.

Krystle:

like, uh, the antagonist, capital T, capital A, you know? Um, and those characters are really compelling, personally, as a reader and a writer, where it's like, That push is a really powerful

Sara:

Yeah, I think just that uncertainty of, of he does have a little bit more depth to his motivation. He, he, he. you don't know where he's gonna go with it. It just, it makes him fascinating.

Adrian:

Yeah, and for for me, like, writing him, that was one of the characters where it's like he felt very cliched at the beginning and then writing more of him, I realized, like, there's so much more going on here that I'm really, really excited about. And there's so many characters in the book that it's like a they came out of nowhere, like I literally didn't include them until like second or third

Krystle:

Yeah. I feel it.

Adrian:

And then, and then characters like Ridgway where it's like your motivations and everything that's going on here is way more like it was, it was like while, you know, while writing that, that chapter, Mindhunter, clicked and, and I just like started writing some lines about Ridgway that made me realize like he and Koji have a backstory. And it is incredibly fascinating. And I, like, I want to dig deeper into that. That's going to be one of those threads that is like setting stuff up for the future. And there are so many other characters that happened to just kind of like by chance of, you know, like creative word vomit, giving birth to something incredibly engaging. Obviously it took fine tuning to kind of like clean up that vomit, but like, you know, like I'm so excited for, for. Uh, what Ridgway, yeah, like what Ridgway can present in the future, um, you know, characters like Rio, Rio, I didn't, I didn't write her until draft. She didn't come into it until the second draft. Um, and she completely just like came out of nowhere and I'm like, okay, you are actually like a bigger player in book two. Um, and then obviously like Sumi and Deku, like they, like their roles, even though at the end, it's like they're captured, but by different people, basically, like Sumi is, is arrested, captured by, by the fungal people. Whereas Deku is taken away by the C pan, who are like the Caprinian people's army navy. They're like the military force. And so it's kind of like both of them, based on who they went with, will have different paths. And even characters within Konoko Rose, like, um, like Airi, who is, who's the one who's pregnant. She will have a bigger role in future books as well. And also her, her tattoo, her, her tattoo artist, Horiyoshi, will also have a bigger role. And so it's really fun for me to be able to be like, these characters just like took on a life of their own and presented me with way more material Then I ever thought possible and I'm like, it's so fucking cool, man. And Oh, even, even like,

Sara:

my mother's Japanese name is Sumi, and so hearing that all the time, I was like, oh, there's a disconnect here.

Adrian:

Yeah. But then also,

Sara:

I have to, this is not my mother you're talking about.

Adrian:

No, I'm not talking about your mother. Um, I swear, you know, it's like, I hope you treat her better than buckets. But, um, but then there are other characters like, um, Yubaba, who's, who's, uh, basically leading this like commune of, of exiles up in the irradiated zone. Um, you know, like she came out of nowhere. I, like, I had not even, like, conceived of her in, in the outline or in the first draft. And I'm like, okay, so like everything that's going on in the Irradiated Zone and old Konoko, there's some really fun stuff going on, like, there's, there's a good playground that I can, that I can mess around with there, you know, or like characters like Palm and Moro, I'm like, the elderly couple who live in Mildew Grove. Yeah, like,

Krystle:

them so much.

Adrian:

Sarah, Lily, do you know who I channeled for that, for those two characters? I channeled my, my fiction fans, ladies for for the

Sara:

I'll take it.

Krystle:

Yeah,

Adrian:

it's like these, these two people who are just so like cozy and, and, and charming, but in a way that is not explicitly trying to be charming. It's like these two people that have a relationship that you'll never fully understand. And when viewed from the outside, it's like, this is just adorable. Like, like, I just love this. So I channeled, I channeled YouTube for, for, for palm and moto, but yeah, I, I just,

Krystle:

So, so the, the, the question that

Sara:

Lily's the one who spiked the tea.

Krystle:

That's the question I was going

Adrian:

percent, a hundred percent. Sarah's like a little bit like, you know, she comes in with a humor. Uh, she's a little bit like, you know, kind of, uh, A little bit more straight laced, Lily comes in and is like, I'm just going to make you some drug

Krystle:

yeah, get ready to fly.

Adrian:

Yeah, I got a fucking bike for you. Let's do this. Oh my God. Yeah. So Crystal, what were you going to say?

Krystle:

Uh, actually that was what I was gonna ask. I was gonna ask which of the two characters, uh, is the one that spikes the D.

Adrian:

Yeah. It was just like, like all the shuffling of slippers and everything. I'm just,

Krystle:

Yeah.

Adrian:

fun. And like a side note for anyone who doesn't know. So it's like the, the Basically, like the bike trip that Hen goes on. So she gets her T spiked and she knows like, I'm in the middle of fucking nowhere, like up in the suburbs in North New Yokonoka and she has no way. It's like winter storm has just passed. And so she's like, how the hell am I going to get to. To Chaga park and basically like the climax of the story. Um, so this was based on like a, uh, my experiences riding bicycles in Berlin in the winter, which is like terrifying, but also so much fun. Um, and you wouldn't think that bicycles work well in the winter, but you can a hundred percent do it. Um, it's just, it's just, you know, like precarious at best. So, um, and then the, her basically being. And with this psychedelic tea and the journey that she has going to South, towards the south of New Yokonoko, like across the city and everything like that, driving a car, uh, under the influence of, of psychedelics, which is also not recommended. Um, no, she, she is fully aware of

Krystle:

so like, this is illegal. I was, but I loved that moment. I

Adrian:

yeah, but that,

Krystle:

Um, narratively, like it was such a good, um, like popped the bubble of tension for just a second and it gave us a moment to catch our breath, but also like there was an awareness of. Um, this is funny, but also it's really important and also we're, we're about to double down in a second. So like it was really, it was a really good pacing decision. Um, and I always really love spotting stuff like that where, um, I feel like the ending was allowed to hit harder because we had had the chance to catch our breath and we weren't fatigued anymore. We got to laugh

Adrian:

right. Cause it's like, if I, if I, if I'd gone, like, cause like basically the last 10 chapters. There's a lot of like heavy shit going on. It's like she basically gets caught and tortured by, partially tortured by, uh, Canoco Rose. Escapes from them and then ends up jumping into a fro like a freezing river towards a, basically like a, like a nuclear irradiated wasteland. Then she has to get through that wasteland during the middle of a blizzard. And is like on the brink of like, yeah, she's in the middle of a storm and she's on the brink of, of. You know, like hypothermia and frostbite, and then she gets saved by a dude with a boar on it. Yeah, she gets, yeah, she gets, she gets, uh, she gets saved by, by Ogami, who is just a badass with a bow and arrow. And I love that she gets attacked by fucking like fungal wolves and like almost has, it's like basically like almost gets her like job. Bit, but there's like mycelium creeping out of its mouth and stuff and like

Krystle:

yeah, it

Adrian:

and then there's a moment of levity where they're at the commune But then she has to get over the border and go through these tunnels and it's like for anyone who's claustrophobic Like I'm really sorry for that

Krystle:

really Tunnels were so stressful. And I'm not,

Sara:

that apology.

Krystle:

not even claustrophobic. And it was, it was super stressful. Like, it was, it was really visceral. Um And

Adrian:

so it's like I needed I'm

Krystle:

late, like, the fact that we now were fond of N, kind of in spite of ourselves. Like, if you had thrown that at her at the beginning, you would be like, bitch, suffocate. Like, you're done. You're fine.

Adrian:

Oh My god choke choke,

Krystle:

yeah, exactly. By the end, we're like, oh, she's, she's really onto something here. So like that, just that moment was really, really good. And then,

Adrian:

And then, and then like the, yeah, breaking the tension with palm and moto and then the bicycle scene, which was directly inspired by, um, so if anyone who doesn't know, like Henrietta Hoffman, the Hoffman in her name comes from Albert Hoffman, who is a chemist who is the first person, person to synthesize, uh, LSD. Um, and he basically realized that he'd. He discovered the, the molecular structure of LSD when he took it and, and he tested it and went on a bike ride home

Krystle:

Yeah,

Adrian:

bike ride was,

Krystle:

and like, it was a huge dose, like, compared to what the average LSD

Adrian:

Average person takes,

Krystle:

a massive amount of LSD, and he was trippin balls, and he was not having a good time.

Adrian:

So that whole bicycle sequence was inspired. Yeah. But that whole bicycle sequence and her trippin balls was inspired by Albert Hoffman's, uh, yeah, his, uh, his eyeopening bike, bike ride in Austria. I think it was no Switzerland. I think it was in Switzerland, but yeah. So that, that for me was just like totally necessary to. of everything that had gone on before that. Um, but also kind of like I had to work so hard to figure out like how to Basically be like, this, this woman is tripping balls, but she also needs to have a sense of urgency to get towards this, this like end goal. And I was like, she can't, I basically had to like time out everything and be like, calculate distances based on the map that I created. Cause I even have like a fucking, like, I have like a bar that's basically like zero two miles. Three miles, five miles, 10. Yeah. Like I have a scale of distance and I was like, how far could you realistically ride her fucking bicycle and get there on time in like a post. Blizzard city where it's like, you're not, yeah,

Krystle:

and the curse of having our maps. Where it's

Adrian:

Yeah, no, the map, no, but the map, the map really helped me in order to figure it out, which is why she's like, I have to get to a police station and basically commandeer, uh, a police cruiser in order to get there faster. Cause I was like, she's not biking the whole way there. Cause in the original, the original first draft, she biked the whole way there. And I was like, that's bullshit.

Krystle:

Yeah.

Adrian:

So I had to figure out and that also like give an opportunity for her to basically like drive under the influence which for an ex alcoholic was a very, uh, weird experience for her. Yeah. So, Lily, you're on mute.

Krystle:

muted. You're muted.

Sara:

still muted.

Lilly:

Hello, I'm here.

Krystle:

Hello! We hear

Adrian:

Hey, what's up?

Lilly:

If you had to sum it all up for one thing, what would you want readers to take away from this book?

Krystle:

Mushrooms are friends. That wasn't for me to answer. Take it away, Adrian.

Adrian:

I, can I, can I, yeah.

Lilly:

and food.

Krystle:

Yeah.

Adrian:

Okay. So this is going to be like multi layered, but it kind of is sort of similar to what Crystal said. Um, mainly like I wanted to pique people's curiosity with mushrooms to, to introduce them to the complexities that fungi have to offer in terms of like, they are your friends, fungi are friends, people. Um, but that they are. These organisms in this sort of like kingdom that exists on our planet, that is often misrepresented, very misunderstood, and still quite sort of like obscure in a lot of ways. Yeah. Like controversial for some reason, but that's more to do with like the drug classification aspect

Krystle:

like a, uh, Mycophobia of like, Ooh, we can't, don't touch that mushroom. It might be poisonous. And they're like

Adrian:

Right. But I will tell, I will tell everyone out, I will tell everyone out there, like right now, there is no mushroom that you can touch and die from.

Krystle:

Yeah. Yeah,

Adrian:

is not like touching a poison, like dart frog or something like that, where the literal, like the literal excretions on that frog's back can go through the pores of your skin and kill you. Mushrooms are not like

Krystle:

don't do that. Yeah.

Adrian:

ways in which mushrooms kill you is you eat them and they cause, they cause liver failure. That is like the number one way in which mushrooms kill you is liver failure. So it's more like understanding you can always touch a mushroom, but you can't always consume a mushroom. Um, But for me, it's like piquing people's curiosity to explore more about mushrooms in their own way to basically be like, I'm going to introduce you to so many different things that mushrooms can do. Whether it's, uh, the ways in which mushrooms can be incorporated into cuisine, the ways in which mushrooms communicate, obviously the fungal net is like an exaggeration of what, what fungi can do. Um, but the ways in which mycelial networks communicate through chemical signals with the environment around them, with. Other fungal organisms with trees, what have you. Uh, but also the ways in which mushrooms can be incorporated into architecture and engineering. The fact that mushrooms can be. Uh, an alternative to concrete to be constructed into literal chairs can be constructed into clothing and microfibers can be constructed into bricks that can be used in housing and construction, all these different applications of it at the same time, the ways in which mushrooms can basically heal environments. As much as mushrooms are associated with decay and death, mushrooms are also a source of healing. Um, that decay is the way in which a forest doesn't suffocate, that's the way in which a forest rejuvenates, is the fact that all of this leaf litter, all these fucking dead animals, everything that ends up on the forest floor is decomposed by mushrooms in order for that forest to survive. Clean itself and essentially start a new cycle of

Krystle:

yeah, it, it returns all that nutrient

Adrian:

Yep. All of that goes back into the soil and is fed back into the, the trees and the plants and the soil, everything. Um, but also the ways in which I think I actually, like, I actually did use the word micro remediation when I was, uh, when she's talking to Yubaba and she's in old Canoco and it's like, how are these fungals surviving in what is proposed to be like a nuclear sort of. Wasteland zone. of micro remediation and the ways in which my fungi and molds are actually able to survive in environments where humans are not capable of surviving. There are molds that have been found in Chernobyl. There are fungi that, that consume petroleum products. So it's like literally they could, they could consume feed off of oil. Or plastics and all these different things. And so the ways in which fungi can serve so many different purposes, it's like, I wanted to show the disgusting nature of, and like the horrifying nature of fungi. But I also wanted to show the beauty of fungi and the utility of it, like across this broad swath of applications. Even though it's a police procedural, it's like, hopefully there's something in there that's like, Oh, wow. You know, and someone gave me flack for like the, the, uh, spores basically being like used to represent how the fungal people emote. Obviously I know that spores are simply a reproduction process that the, that mushrooms have.

Sara:

Yeah,

Adrian:

I'm not, I'm basically, yeah, this, this is science fiction and I don't want, I needed some way to convey visually like the mushroom people and I'm not going to be like, yeah, they're just going around spreading spores and literally fucking everything around them. Like I'm not, yeah. So this is not a hundred percent scientifically accurate. There is a lot of stuff that is rooted in scientific facts. Mycological facts, but there are obvious fabrications. There are obvious like twists on the reality of it. I use spores to convey, uh, the emotions of the fungal people. You know, I'm not going to be like. Obviously if I have like mushroom headed people, they're going to release spores at some point. I'm not going to be like Henrietta's in a room thinking about how Koji is trying to reproduce with her. You know, it's like they're human fungal hybrids that have penises. I'll explore that later. Don't worry about it.

Krystle:

Yes.

Lilly:

I would read that

Krystle:

Yeah, me too! I was gonna

Lilly:

that.

Krystle:

absolutely

Sara:

but I want Henrietta to end up with Ryo, not Koji.

Krystle:

But

Adrian:

Oh, I'll have a rea poor Rio.

Krystle:

it counts.

Adrian:

Yeah, it's still mushroom fucking. There is going to be, there is going to be some, some sapphic, uh, sort of fungal fucking in, in Spore City, so.

Lilly:

Which leads me directly into the most important question. Can you tell us anything about your current projects?

Adrian:

Yeah, I mean, uh, so right now I'm, I had like a huge detox after mushroom blues came out and I needed it. Um, but I'm like slowly kind of creeping back into it. So I've got

Krystle:

I'm, and I'm really glad to hear that you went with it willingly, because like, I remember

Adrian:

yeah, that was, that was thanks to you and

Krystle:

Yeah.

Adrian:

like warning me about it because knowing me, I would have fought it. I would have been like, eh, just all

Krystle:

Gotta get back to work two days after. No,

Adrian:

Two days after. No, but it's given me the time to focus on, on, Like marketing the book and post launch stuff and, um, you know, like working on a secret project with a certain, um, certain bookseller for, for later this year, uh, I got like the Italian translation as well, which is coming out in, uh, early 2025, but yeah, just like stuff like that, like I was able to kind of like focus on, on that kind of stuff. Um, but. This long delayed sort of reader magnet newsletter giveaway novella, um, which I'm very excited about. This is like my true ode to Anthony Bourdain, but it's, uh, it's called a tale of fish and fungi. And it is basically a character. This happens between Mushroom Blues and the sequel, and it's a character that is going to play a bigger part. That's going to play a part in Mushroom Blues.

Krystle:

In the next

Adrian:

Uh, book two, cause he has a connection to Koji. And so it's kind of like setting him up. Um, it's this fungal named Pocho and he's basically like before the war, he was a well renowned sushi chef and then the war just like ruined his life. And he, after, after the occupation ended up, uh, being forced into the service of. Douglas MacArthur. So he's, yeah, so he's like, he's like the, the, the commander of, of C pan and basically the one who's running the whole show and in upon. So he has been forced into being MacArthur's. And so he's kind of like a prisoner and he is blackmailed by some gangsters into assassinating MacArthur. And so, yeah, so I'm really, really excited about that one.

Sara:

That sounds, uh, really fun to read. I'm looking forward to it.

Adrian:

uh, and then, and then also the, then also the, the, the full book that I'm working on is Spore City, which is going to. Be the start of the Konoko trilogy. So it takes place in the Okinoko it's in the fungal verse 30 years after the Hoffman report. Um, and that one is basically it brings, brings a broke Koji back. He's going to be a POV character. Uh, there's a half breed gangster tattoo artist and a human corporate spy. Uh, and so that one deals a lot more with. Corporations and biotechnology and how sort of like the fungal biology plays into corporatization and, and, um, sort of like big tech and that kind of stuff. And then there are gangster crime families and corporate espionage and, uh, and, and of course there's like another strange murder. So Yeah, it's going to be a good time.

Sara:

of course, well, that also sounds excellent. Uh, where can you be found on the internet for, uh, listeners to keep track of when all of this comes out?

Adrian:

Uh, so yeah, you can check out my website, adrianmgibson. com, uh, at adrianmgibson on pretty much every social media platform. Although like I'm pretty much. Active only on Twitter and Instagram. Those are the main two. Um, and then, yeah, I mean, whoever's listening to this up until this point, like it, it came out on SFF addicts. So, you know, you can catch me on SFF addicts podcast, uh, every Tuesday with my bestie, MJ Kuhn, where we interview authors and do writing masterclasses. And yeah, you can pick up Mushroom Blues.

Krystle:

Yeah.

Adrian:

It's out in paperback, hardcover ebook. Uh, there's an audio book coming out in the fall, so you can get this on Amazon. You can get it, uh, you can order it through pretty much like any, any online retailer, like Barnes and Noble or yeah. Uh, anyone like that? Um, the broken binding is going to have some new signed hardcovers in stock. Uh, if you're in Canada, if you're in Ontario, you can actually pick it up at, uh, some physical locations of Indigo

Krystle:

some of our indigos are carrying it now too. Yeah, that

Adrian:

yeah, which is really cool. Um, so yeah.

Lilly:

Fantastic. And Crystal, where are you at for our

Krystle:

Um, yeah, so I I do a different podcast called the dripping bucket with the granddaddy of grim dark Michael R. Fletcher. You like that?

Adrian:

Does he, does he know that you

Krystle:

Yes, I do. Yes, he does. Yeah.

Adrian:

and he secretly hates that you

Krystle:

Oh, for sure. And that's why I stick to it.

Adrian:

Oh, poor Mike.

Krystle:

and, uh, I'm allegedly a reviewer on before we go blog, but I'm not super consistent. So I'm sorry, Beth.

Adrian:

You reviewed my book, so thank you.

Krystle:

yeah, I review excellent books only. Um, I'm on Twitter. Uh, my books are available through all of the indie platforms and Amazon. Um, I think that's pretty much it. I think I've got it all this. No, the other one is I'm a columnist at, uh, grim dark magazine and my first article will be coming out shortly. Dot, dot, dot, question mark. Yeah, I'm excited for that one.

Adrian:

so exciting.

Sara:

Thank you both so much for coming on. Uh, as always, it's always a joy to have you both.

Adrian:

you.

Lilly:

And Sarah, where can we be found on the internet?

Krystle:

Yeah.

Sara:

uh, fictionfanspodcast. com, I believe that's correct. Uh, our, our handle,

Krystle:

my list now. Yeah.

Sara:

pretty much everywhere is, uh, fictionfanspod. Uh, we're most active on Twitter and Blue Sky, uh, when I don't get distracted by doing other things like trying to read five books before next week. Um.

Lilly:

We also show up on TikTok when I feel like it.

Sara:

Yes.

Krystle:

show up on TikTok when I feel like it, but

Lilly:

don't hold your breath.

Krystle:

Yeah.

Sara:

Uh, and you can find Fiction Fans on basically all podcast platforms.

Lilly:

Patreon, where we post some dumbass shit. So

Sara:

Our specialty.

Lilly:

totally worth it.

Krystle:

Yeah. It's good to be consistent. Dumbass shit

Adrian:

Yeah,

Lilly:

yeah.

Adrian:

if I could convince you of anything, we got dumb ass shit.

Krystle:

Yeah.

Lilly:

we have standards, and it is dumbass shit.

Adrian:

Just going to spike your tea, deal with it.

Lilly:

Yeah.

Krystle:

Yeah.

Lilly:

anyone had any question, if that was correct, clearly that was the right, uh, delineation

Adrian:

Palm, Palm and Morrow are going to start a podcast soon. So yeah.

Sara:

Excellent.

Adrian:

Yeah. It's called the mildew, the mildew grove pod.

Lilly:

Yeah. Well, thanks everyone for listening, and may your villains always be defeated.

Krystle:

Oh, I thought you were going to say, may your villains always be fuckable, but I guess that's a different podcast.

Lilly:

That's, I mean, a sub genre of our podcast, to be fair.

Sara:

Hashtag trash villain

Krystle:

Yes, he is. That's where I thought you were going.

Adrian:

Oh my God.