Fiction Fans

A Wizard of Earthsea by Ursula K. Le Guin

• Episode 143

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The people have spoken! Your hosts let their patreon subscribers choose the book for this episode, and they chose "A Wizard of Earthsea" by Ursula K. Le Guin. Your hosts discuss narrative voice, Fantasy tropes from the mid 20th century, and how an author's reputation may affect the reader's experience. They also talk about coming of age stories, warm mentor figures, and depictions of positive masculinity.



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Thanks to the following musicians for the use of their songs:

- Amarià for the use of “Sérénade à Notre Dame de Paris”
- Josh Woodward for the use of “Electric Sunrise”

Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 4.0 License


Lilly:

a podcast

Sara:

And I'm Sarah.

Lilly:

and tonight we'll be discussing a wizard, a wizard, the

Sara:

A A wizard. A wizard.

Lilly:

From Earthsea or of Earthsea?

Sara:

Of Earthsea.

Lilly:

Earthsea, okay.

Sara:

You do know that the title is there in the title of our notes, right?

Lilly:

I didn't actually. That's really helpful, thanks.

Sara:

I have been doing that for at least a year and a half. Actually longer. I'm pretty sure I've been doing it for like two and a half years at this point.

Lilly:

guess I know I did know that because that's how I find the right notes document. no, no excuse by Ursula K. Le Guin. But before we begin discussing that, first, what's something great that happened

Sara:

Something great that happened recently is that I got out of bed this morning and went for a run, and this is good only in the sense that I'm trying to be consistent about my running. I mean, obviously I would have preferred to stay in bed with the pugs, who are very cozy, but I did drag myself out and I'm very proud of myself for that.

Lilly:

It's just one of those days because my answer is also supremely practical. The question is good thing, not enjoyable thing. So,

Sara:

What do you take pleasure in?

Lilly:

yeah, got a lot of laundry done today. Not just doing it, but also folding it, which is the hard part.

Sara:

That is the hard part.

Lilly:

So much laundry.

Sara:

Well, that's a very good thing.

Lilly:

is! I've been doing that thing where I grab a clean towel out of the laundry basket, which is like, it's fine. It works. But every time I do it, I'm like, I shouldn't be doing this. what are you drinking

Sara:

I am drinking wine.

Lilly:

Nice. I am drinking Rainier. It's a local beer.

Sara:

It's a beer.

Lilly:

I know I'm drinking beer. Beer is not my favorite beverage, but Rainier is fun and it's local. And if you're But there's so much ale in this book, I was like, well I have to have something to that, like, effect. And this was the best thing in the house, the closest thing in the house to that.

Sara:

Yeah, uh, there is, there is a lot of ale mentioned in this book.

Lilly:

And I don't think Le Guin uses the word quaffing, but I imagined that it was a lot of quaffing of ale.

Sara:

I think there's more kind of like morose downing of ale than quaffing. In my imagination.

Lilly:

Is quaffing always a, like, exuberant thing? I thought it referred more to the speed.

Sara:

I associate it with exuberance. I don't know if that's actually, like, grammatically in the implication. What does Merriam Webster say about quaffing? To drink heartily or copiously.

Lilly:

Like a deep pull, I would say, is a quaff.

Sara:

Yeah. Hearty draft or gulp. So I guess it's not specifically an exuberance thing.

Lilly:

There's not an emotion attached to it.

Sara:

Yeah, a lot of the context of these definitions involves happiness.

Lilly:

Well, I don't think they wanted to use, Greg broke up with Susan, so she's been quaffing wine for the last week as their example.

Sara:

I mean, they do use curled up on her couch wearing lounge pants quaffing her third glass of wine, so that is one of the more negative or sad examples.

Lilly:

Well, I guess that was an impromptu. Little words are weird, so that's fun. I haven't had one of those in a while.

Sara:

we haven't.

Lilly:

Well, have you read anything other than podcast books lately?

Sara:

I've been reading, what is it, Chain Gang All Stars by Nana Kwame Adjei Brenya. And it is excellent, but it's also kind of difficult reading. It's like a dystopian future sci fi indictment of the prison system in the U. S.

Lilly:

So uplifting.

Sara:

Yes. I can only read it in short bursts because it is, you know, terrible, as is our prison system. But it's a really good book.

Lilly:

Nice. I have not read a single thing other than podcast books. So, let's talk about them.

Sara:

We have had to do a lot of podcast reading lately.

Lilly:

Le Guin is one of those powerhouse

Sara:

She's definitely an icon. My father has been to her house, apparently.

Lilly:

Was she there?

Sara:

She was there. He did not know anything about fantasy books or Le Guin, so he did not recognize the importance of who she was at the time.

Lilly:

fool.

Sara:

I know. This was way back when he was working for UC Berkeley and she was donating books or papers or something to the library and he went to pick them up. It was apparently a very fast interaction, but he did go to her house.

Lilly:

Well, that's

Sara:

Yeah.

Lilly:

I have not read any other Le Guin. This was my first book.

Sara:

I want to say that I have, but I'm not sure if that's actually true. I know that I've had some of her books for a very long time. I feel like I probably read one of them, but since I don't remember anything about it, I'm not sure if that counts.

Lilly:

It felt like you were going into this fresh anyway.

Sara:

It did.

Lilly:

I think the first thing that I noticed about this book was How strong the narrative voice is. Both the voice of the narrator and also the prose. I will admit I was a little put off at first by the use of commas. There are a lot and they're not in places I expected them to be. I got used to it. And I actually would say that I quite like her prose. But the rhythm is so different. And I wonder how much of that is just when she was writing. I mentioned this on our Discord and Pete,

Sara:

Pete Long, who is also an excellent blogger, and I think does a podcast as well, or at least is a podcast co host.

Lilly:

he was saying that Tombs of Atuan was Well, I guess he didn't actually say favorite. He said he liked it a lot. He loved it even. Anyway, he was saying that she wrote a book about writing and in it she talks a lot about rhythm, so I did feel very special for figuring that out and noticing it all by myself.

Sara:

I really did enjoy her prose. It definitely felt a little more like old fashioned fantasy, which is something that I do gravitate towards. I like the richness of that prose contrasted with the sometimes kind of sparse modern styles. So that was, from the beginning, that was a plus for me rather than a neutral thing.

Lilly:

well, I guess there's the sentence structure itself. I was taken aback by. There, I have some, I don't know how well it's gonna read in a podcast. As he came to the bank ogion, waiting. Reached out his hand and, clasping the boy's arm, whispered to him his true name, Ged. I don't think it really works as well, reading it out loud,

Sara:

I mean, I, I see what your point is. Like, there are a lot of there. They're not commas that I think are misplaced. It's just a more, I don't know, old fashioned sentence structure.

Lilly:

that's all.

Sara:

Yeah.

Lilly:

I took some getting used to. But I loved the voice of the narrator. It really felt like someone was telling me a story. In a way that I also feel from like, Tolkien's prose. So maybe this is also just a, an era thing. But, no this is later enough. And anyway, you

Sara:

Well, she's reacting directly to, like, Tolkien's fantasy. So I think it's fair to compare them.

Lilly:

There was a lot of really fun foreshadowing, where the narrator would say like, And Ged didn't even know how that was gonna end up playing out. And then, to things that didn't even happen in this book, that I'm pretty sure is foreshadowing or bringing up things that happen later in the series, which is pretty cool.

Sara:

Yeah, I did like that. It made it seem like there was a very definite sense of where the story was going. Even if, I mean, and for all I know, like, she was just putting in these things and then thinking, Aw shit, now I've gotta figure out how I'm gonna work it into the story. But it, it did lend a sense of weight and history to the narration.

Lilly:

And there was also a moment where the narrator doesn't know something. But all this is hearsay. Wizards will not speak of it. From stuff in the exposition! That's just neat. I love that the narrator is doubting their own information. An omniscient third person perspective narrator who knows the thoughts and feelings and emotions of all these characters. It also really helped because there is some EXTREMELY blunt exposition in this book. Like, just straight up telling, not showing. Which I think worked because it felt so much like someone was telling me a story. So someone having a little aside to say like, Oh, by the way, it is a town on the edge of the high rocks of Overfell, and its name means falcon's nest. Like, okay, thanks. They're just gonna tell me, you know, not even trying to get artsy fartsy with it. I also think ultimately I ended up not minding the really, really blunt exposition because it made this book such a reasonable length.

Sara:

Well, I, I mean, not gonna lie, that is one of the reasons why, why we chose it. So this was a book that our patrons got to vote on. We had a couple of options for them that is a benefit if you join our Patreon. And this time it was what are short books or our category for deciding what to put up in the poll was what are short books that we own

Lilly:

Yep. We, uh, had our thumb on the scale there a little bit. But, I mean, this is a coming of age story. It starts when Ged is quite young, but, I mean, like, really kicks off when he's, like, maybe 13, and then goes until he's 19, and, I'm, there are whole series that deal with that age range. She could have stretched this out into a de separate quartet!

Sara:

She could have.

Lilly:

I really like that she didn't! She was like, now the story is about him growing up, and so he's gonna grow up.

Sara:

Yeah. It was interesting, you know, talking a little bit about the story and the coming of age aspect of it. Actually, this is, my comment has nothing to do with the coming of age aspect of it, but it almost felt a little bit like, to me, a little bit like four separate short stories that were chronological.

Lilly:

It felt very episodic, I agree completely,

Sara:

Yeah. Which made for an interesting read because I went into it expecting it to flow a little more rather than feel like a collection.

Lilly:

Yeah, and it all has sort of a central issue that is being dealt with that comes up actually not even that early, I think it's at least a third of the way So I won't talk about it, but there is a central problem that all of the stories revolve around. However, it is just sort of Ged going on little adventures throughout his life. I say little adventures. Some of them are more life threatening than others, and some of them are just delightful.

Sara:

I mean, I think that they feel like little adventures because even though some of them are actually quite big and important and life changing and life threatening, the way in which the story is written feels very cozy, and so it all feels like cozy little adventures, despite the actual content of what's happening.

Lilly:

The whole book starts with, there have been so many legends written about this man's accomplishments later in life, but let's talk about when he was a kid. So it definitely sets up that, like, he's gonna be okay.

Sara:

Yeah, and I mean, that's what Le Guin was specifically trying to address, right? Like, she has an afterword where she says that she, at the time, all of the fantasy novels or stories were about wizards who were established, like Merlin and Gandalf. And so she very explicitly wanted to push back against that trope. And subverted a little bit by writing about someone who was all of those things, but that's not what we were focusing on, like, in his lifetime.

Lilly:

Yeah, how did he get there?

Sara:

Yeah, exactly.

Lilly:

I quite liked it. We That is definitely a spoiler conversation to talk about his character arc and everything, so, put a pin in And also my complaint for why I don't think you should ever use the word cozy for this book is a spoiler, but uh,

Sara:

Yes. I mean, like, to be clear, I don't think it's a cozy novel, but it still has a cozy feel at a lot of points.

Lilly:

I mean, I agree there are some really warm friendships in this book that I really enjoyed reading that we gotta stop.

Sara:

Well, but it's, it's also like, and again, she says this very explicitly in the afterward, like it's not about war. And I don't think that's a spoiler to

Lilly:

No, that's not a spoiler

Sara:

Yeah. It's about an individual finding himself and coming of age.

Lilly:

It's a very personal journey.

Sara:

Yeah. And that's not necessarily always cozy, but in this case, I don't know, there is that cozy aspect, but again, I wouldn't call it a cozy novel

Lilly:

No.

Sara:

in general.

Lilly:

So, we've talked a little bit about reputations, and how they can affect, an author's reputation, and how that can affect your reading of a book.

Sara:

Yeah, and I have a couple of friends who have read this book, and one of them picked it up after hearing a lot about how Le Guin was a feminist fantasy author. And she had some trouble with this book because there are so few female characters in it. And so that was one of her main criticisms, like, well, If Le Guin is such a feminist, why does this book have basically no, I don't want to say no female characters, it has a couple, but like, why are there no major good female characters? And I see her point, because she's not wrong about that. You know, the main female characters that we get are either kind of evil, definitely evil, Or sidelined, but I do also feel like the narration acknowledges it. Ged has a comment at one point about his friend's sister.

Lilly:

That line made me laugh, because I know exactly which one you're going to read.

Sara:

Yeah, so, she was not like any person he had known, in parentheses. What young girl had he ever known at all? But he never thought of that. And so, I think that Le Guin is acknowledging that this is a very male centered story. Again, because that is the trope that she was playing with, explicitly, of, you know, the older wizard who was accomplished like Marlin or Gandalf.

Lilly:

Yeah, and honestly, the lack of main female characters just made it feel antiquated to me. Maybe that's letting it off too easy, but I was just like, yeah, this is a pretty damn old book, so of course there aren't women in it.

Sara:

I mean, I think that's true too.

Lilly:

Yeah, I mean, that's definitely a factor, but honestly the women that we do see have agency, they have internal lives that the narrator acknowledges and talks about, and, I even made one comment, at one moment Ged is using magic to weave a sail. That's later on in the book, but he learns magic. Surprise! He's a wizard.

Sara:

Spoilers!

Lilly:

And the narration mentions that the women in the village are really envious that he's using magic to weave, because one of the main occupations that we see women have has been weaving. It gets brought up, like, what are people in the village doing? You know, well, the women are probably weaving something. And I just really loved how, Yeah, women being envious can be an awful trope used against us, but it's for a skill, which I feel like is so different from like, oh, she's jealous because that other girl's pretty. And so even when Le Guin is sort of, I don't know, falling into a little bit more rote aspects, The female characters in this book still felt so much more like people than they have in some other books.

Sara:

Yeah, I mean, again, I do think that both it was the late 60s and female characters just were not that prevalent in fantasy novels. Spoilers! And also, she wasn't trying to address that iniquity specifically. And I do kind of feel like sometimes her female characters in this book get a little shafted. The witch who brings Get Up, for example, is not, I mean, she's not a bad person.

Lilly:

pretty selfish.

Sara:

Yeah, she's, she's selfish and not great. The other female character who gets a lot of screen time is very definitely evil.

Lilly:

okay, but I loved her scheme. I think, okay, I think everyone can agree that it's a bummer that there weren't more major female characters. However, in a vacuum, the female characters that we do have are really excellent for what they are. It just sucks that they're the only ones we Yeah, of course there should have been more women. I would have really liked if there could have been women wizards. We do see women magic users. They're all called witches or enchantresses though. That was a

Sara:

I think that has to do with the fact that they didn't go to fancy wizard school, because the men who don't go to fancy wizard school are called sorcerers, or who drop out of fancy wizard school are called sorcerers.

Lilly:

Yeah, and it was before that had totally been established. There's a line about fancy wizard school and how some, you know, lord was visiting and brought his wife And it was a big deal because there aren't usually women in this building. And my exact comment was, boo. So you can't win them all.

Sara:

Yeah.

Lilly:

But I understand, like, if you've been sort of sold this idea that this is gonna be a feminist work by a feminist author, getting this would be shocking.

Sara:

Yeah. I mean like, I definitely see coming at it from that angle, for sure. If that's what you go in expecting, yeah, you're gonna be a little disappointed.

Lilly:

Uh, Le Guin does play with fantasy race, however.

Sara:

Yes.

Lilly:

In a very understated, but very fun way. Just, it's never really brought up. But all of the main characters, all of everyone, is brown or black. And we hear about white people twice. One, when they've come to pillage. The city, or the village, where Ged grew up. And once, when it's an island that Ged wants to avoid, cause that's where all the savage white people live.

Sara:

Well, also, he has an adventure in a very cold place, and all of the people there are white and evil. Yes.

Lilly:

It's the, the savage barbarian foreigner. Horrible stereotype, but flipped. And then, like, not really brought up or discussed. It doesn't hit you over the head with it. It's just very matter of fact, like, Oh yeah, Vetch is from that city, so he has black skin. Cause that's, you know, that's the region of the islands. It's like, oh. Delightful.

Sara:

I think it's terrible, though, how, and Le Guin talks about this a little bit in that afterward again, but I think it's terrible how, for a long time, publishers would not acknowledge that Ged was not white on the cover. And, like, they would insist on putting art of a white person when Ged is not white. How much about Earthsea and Ged and Le Guin did you know going into this? I mean, besides the fact that she was a big name author.

Lilly:

I have seen Tales from Earthsea, the very bad Studio Ghibli movie.

Sara:

Is Ged white in that?

Lilly:

Well, he's anime in that. I don't, I don't know. Everyone in that is the same skin color and they're all pretty light, I'll tell you that much.

Sara:

Okay, so I'm gonna go with yes.

Lilly:

I mean, or Japanese. He's

Sara:

Uh, yeah.

Lilly:

It's anime, I don't know. Uh, there's definitely no black people in it, I'll tell you that. Which there probably should have been.

Sara:

There probably should have been. I mean, Japan does know how to animate black people. Like it is, it is technically possible for them. They don't always do it well, but.

Lilly:

Yeah, so, that is all. That is the only background information I had. It was, oh my god. Nope, that's a spoiler conversation. Tales from Earthsea, the movie, is like an amalgamation of four different books. So I have no idea what's going on.

Sara:

So is it an amalgamation of four different books or is it based on the collection Tales from Earthsea?

Lilly:

I'm just telling you what Google said.

Sara:

Okay. Yeah, because there is a book called Tales from Earthsea.

Lilly:

Then why wouldn't Google have just said, It's based on the book with the same name.

Sara:

I'm not saying that Google is wrong, necessarily. I'm just asking for clarification.

Lilly:

The film is based on a combination of plot and character elements from the first four books of Ursula K. Le Guin's Earthsea series, as well as Hayao Miyazaki's graphic novel Shuna's Journey. It's a mess. the movie is. It's all over the place. We're not talking about that right now. There's a song that goes on, I'm not kidding, three plus minutes. A girl just starts singing and we just have to sit there watching her sing.

Sara:

think we should watch this and then do an exclusive Patreon episode on it.

Lilly:

Yes. But it was fun watching it when I was halfway through this book because I was, in the opening scene, I was like, oh is that Sparrowhawk? Oh, is that one Sparrowhawk? Which one's Sparrowhawk? He has to be in this somewhere. He was. But yeah, had nothing to do with the events of this.

Sara:

Gotcha.

Lilly:

So I feel like every author has a different world building thing that's their, like, pet project. Whether it's, you know, the magic, or the culture, or the religion, or the geography.

Sara:

There was a lot of geography in this book.

Lilly:

There was so much. Just, like, the names of islands, and where they are in relationship to other islands, and which rivers they have, and which rivers they're close to.

Sara:

And again, not to keep harping on this afterward, because I feel like I've brought it up a lot in this conversation, but she does talk about how before she could start writing this book she had to know the place. And she did that by taking like a whiteboard and drawing, I don't remember if it was a whiteboard specifically, but she did it by drawing out the world, basically.

Lilly:

great. I love that for her. I did not need to know it. Like, clearly she was just very into her mountains, which is awesome, but, like, not relevant.

Sara:

I really enjoyed it. I mean, if you asked me to name any of the islands and where they were in relation to other places, I could not do it because, like, it was in my eyes and then out the other. But I like getting that level of detail in a book when it comes to something physical. Like, I don't always need to know the mechanics of magic or whatever. Cough, Sanderson. But I like it with geography because it really does make the place feel real.

Lilly:

I think if we were getting this much detail about places where Ged actually was, I would have been more into it. But there would be whole paragraphs just describing areas that he is not going to, has no intention of going to. None of the events are happening there. We're just learning about them. It felt like I was in history class.

Sara:

Yeah, that's great. I love it.

Lilly:

Give me that much information about where he is, or where he's going next, or where he grew up. But like, it was just a lot. It was a lot.

Sara:

It was a lot, and I do kind of feel like a hypocrite because there are books that I can think of where I'm like, this is not necessary, why are you telling me this, I do not care. But,

Lilly:

when the prose is pretty, you're enjoying the ride.

Sara:

Yeah, yeah, when the prose is pretty, I enjoy it. And like when it's done well, I like it, but that is a big caveat. Of course, you know, it has to be done well.

Lilly:

It's like that very thirsty saying, Well, I could listen to him read me the dictionary.

Sara:

Exactly.

Lilly:

I could read Le Guin describe islands to me.

Sara:

Exactly.

Lilly:

So the magic was interesting in this book. It leans really hard on the concept that names have power. And so if you know the true name of something, then you can control it. You have power over it. And it sort of takes that. A very cliched concept to a cool, like, logical conclusion. So then, like, a lot of wizardry is just learning names of things. And if you travel far away, then you don't know the names anymore, and so it's really dangerous. So, like, that was a fun angle.

Sara:

I have a question for you. Do you think it's cliche because it's in youth a lot these days, or do you think it was cliche when she wrote about it?

Lilly:

Man, I don't fuckin know. I, okay, this was not the first book to do that, though. I know that much.

Sara:

No, I mean like this has very deep roots in fairytales and folklore, but in modern fantasy, I feel like a lot of it probably does come back to Le Guin. And when Le Guin was writing, I feel like it would not have felt like such a cliche. I have no data to back that up. That's just my vibes.

Lilly:

think,

Sara:

but

Lilly:

you qualified that real hard, which makes it impossible to argue with. You're right. I don't think it was such a cliche 50 years ago. More than 50 years ago. But I think it was still, like, a very established trope that she was twisting and playing with.

Sara:

I mean, established, yes, established in the sense that it was a fairy tale thing. I just don't know how much it showed up in traditional fantasy novels.

Lilly:

You can't hand wave away, Oh, yeah, I mean, it's been used in stories humans have been telling each other for hundreds of years. Just all of fairy tales.

Sara:

Just watch me. You can't tell me what to do.

Lilly:

Like, yeah, it's a very common fairy tale thing. It's very common.

Sara:

Right, but, but I do think that it's worth making a difference between fairy tales and quote unquote fantasy genre because they are a little different.

Lilly:

I think you're right. It probably wasn't cliché. She was definitely playing with an established concept. That she was twisting and changing. Like, the idea that a wizard wouldn't want to travel far and wide, because I feel like the classic concept of a wizard is Gandalf, right? Roaming everywhere. But if you go too far away, you're not gonna know the names of the mountains, or the winds, or the seas anymore, and you're gonna be way less powerful. Like, that's a fun idea. And I love that she, like, she thought it through, right? Like, okay,

Sara:

Mm hmm.

Lilly:

have power, what then?

Sara:

Yeah. I, yeah, I agree with that.

Lilly:

Well, we can finally talk about spoilers. But first,

Sara:

I think you were going to answer my question, and so I didn't want to interrupt, but I had already interrupted.

Lilly:

I was going to ask you who should read this book. Is that what you were going to say?

Sara:

yes, that was, that was what I was going to ask.

Lilly:

In her afterword, Le Guin does say that she specifically set out to write a book for teenagers. And I think that, yeah, I would say this would be a great book for teens coming out of that, like, YA. Or maybe even overlapping with YA a little bit.

Sara:

Yeah, I mean, I think that if you want to read a classic fantasy novel, and I use classic in the sense of something that was written in the 60s, published in the late 60s, as opposed to something that's published in modern times, this is a great fantasy novel if you're looking for a coming of age story. Again, this is a great novel.

Lilly:

And Le Guin is an icon. I mean, I think it's worth reading for the historical value alone. And throw on top of that, that it's an enjoyable book. Makes it even better.

Sara:

Yeah, I mean, it's, it's multi layered in that sense. Like, yes, she's an icon, and so you should read it just for that, but also it's a good book. And I think it, sure, there are some things that we've been quibbling with, like the lack of female characters, but it still holds up as an enjoyable read in 2024.

Lilly:

Yeah, and like, sure, there are some things that in the perfect world would be different. But it's not to the point where I'm like, Ooh, I don't know if I would recommend a kid to read. Like, that's fine.

Sara:

Yeah.

Lilly:

I think it is because even though there's not a lot of female characters, the ones that we see don't suck. As well written humans, I mean. A lot of them suck because they're bad people, but that's fine.

Sara:

There's, yeah, they are people. They're not caricatures.

Lilly:

I did not know what to expect, partially because of the really bad movie. Oh man, and I complained so much about the songs in Lord of the Rings, so I was positive that if that movie made me sit there and listen to a song, that meant there would be a lot of songs in this book. And there wasn't a single one! Well, they talk about them, but we don't have to read them. Huh.

Sara:

Yeah, there were zero songs written out. Lots of songs mentioned, but we don't get the lyrics.

Lilly:

There's a strong oral storytelling tradition

Sara:

Yeah.

Lilly:

Anyway, I didn't know what to expect. Ended up really

Sara:

As part of our round of Patreon shoutouts, we would like to thank Stephen J. Morris for supporting us.

Lilly:

And if you support us on you can find a lot of such as the game of Shoot, Screw, or Marry with the characters from Evocation by Saint I know, there's already a polyamorous relationship. Can we make it more complicated?

Sara:

We can always make things more complicated.

Lilly:

The remainder she killed the O Talk

Sara:

I know!

Lilly:

I that the second you said, this book kind of has cozy vibes. I was like, fuck you. No, The Ooc dies.

Sara:

Look, I'm not calling it a cozy novel, particularly because the otak dies. But I stand by my statement that a lot of it has cozy vibes. But I was so sad about the otak. Like,

Lilly:

Oh my God. So that was one of the things. When we were watching the movie, I was like, Oh, you know, where I'm at in the book, Ged has a little fuzzy companion. He's not in this movie. I wonder if that's an adaptation choice.

Sara:

oh no!

Lilly:

then he dies. I was so upset.

Sara:

Yeah, I was really upset about that too.

Lilly:

The Otok is a small, fuzzy, little, rat like creature who finds Ged in the forest and just decides that they're best friends.

Sara:

Well, Ged knows his name.

Lilly:

Okay. But the Otok still finds him before he calls his name.

Sara:

Yeah. I mean, like, the otak decides to stay with him.

Lilly:

Yeah. The Otok chooses

Sara:

Yes, but I think part of that does have to do with Ged knowing his name.

Lilly:

Yeah, okay. He's good at animal magic, sure. But the otak, like, rides around on his shoulder or in his pocket, and nurses him back to health through the power of love and friendship a couple of times.

Sara:

He's so cute.

Lilly:

And then, there is a scene, I called it, but in my heart I didn't want to. Ged was just, he was fleeing from the shadow demon. They don't use the word demon in the book, but it's some kind of shadowy demon y thing. He's running away. He's panicked. He gets what ends up being basically kidnapped by this spooky tower. And he wakes up, and he reaches for his staff, and his staff's not there. And my comment is, The Otak's not there either. Where is it? And there's a line in the narration that's like, Oh, he's hoping that the Otak maybe just, uh, got lost during the fight, and he'll find him when he leaves the tower. And I was like, maybe that's true. Maybe the Otak isn't dead. I

Sara:

I would like to believe it.

Lilly:

Oh, I lived in hope for that whole chapter.

Sara:

Until our hopes were dashed, cruelly dashed, by the description of the Otak's dead body.

Lilly:

Outside the da it followed him!

Sara:

I know. Do you think that the otak was killed by the shadow demon or by the people in the tower?

Lilly:

Hmm. I assumed shadow

Sara:

See, I was kind of thinking it was the lord and lady of the tower.

Lilly:

But couldn't they have just kept it out?

Sara:

Maybe, but they were also pretty awful people.

Lilly:

I mean, yeah, they were awful. But I mean, the lady was trapped inside, so I don't know why it would have been so hard to keep the otak out.

Sara:

Yeah, I just, I don't know, I got the sense from their vibes that like,

Lilly:

the kind of assholes who would kill a poor defenseless otak.

Sara:

Yeah, especially if they thought that the Otak might, you know, bring strength or hope or whatever to the person they're trying to swindle into being their, you know, bewitched slave.

Lilly:

Yeah. I didn't even consider that. I think it's very possible.

Sara:

Yeah.

Lilly:

I was just too upset to think about anything.

Sara:

It was very upsetting. It was definitely upsetting. I will say, it was changing gears just a little bit. Ged really frustrated me in the beginning because he is, you know, arrogant and prideful and angry and I was like, you're just an unpleasant person to read about. But he goes through such a transformation over the course of the story. into someone who is much more thoughtful and more calm, and that was really rewarding.

Lilly:

So, I agree. He was a total twerp at the beginning of the book. I kind of loved it. The narrator makes so much fun of him that it was really fun to read, actually. And it didn't bother me at all.

Sara:

I mean, yes, the narrator makes fun of him, but I was, I just, I lost patience with him a lot of times, like, especially when he's, like, posturing with Jasper in the very beginning, where Jasper just introduces himself and then, like, asks Ged's name, and Ged's like, You're being rude to me. because you're giving your full name, and I don't know how to respond to that, so I'm gonna be an asshole. And I was like, come on, Ged. And then, like, for a while I felt really bad for Jasper, and then Jasper starts being an asshole himself, and I'm like, okay, my sympathy has run out for you, but

Lilly:

I mean, I think they are just very realistic teenage boys.

Sara:

probably.

Lilly:

I think because the narrator was so obviously saying, like, Ged had no reason to think he was being hostile, but he decided to take it as an insult. I was just like, fuck yeah.

Sara:

The narration definitely acknowledges that, which I appreciate. It did make it easier to read, but at the same time, I found that I didn't have a lot of patience for that.

Lilly:

Interesting. Yeah, I was completely fine with it because of the narration. Without that, it also would have been very frustrating for me, for sure.

Sara:

Yeah, like, it's just the kind of behavior that I don't enjoy reading about, so, like, this is a personal problem, I think.

Lilly:

Eh, I mean, it is annoying, and if we hadn't had the book saying, Hey, that's really annoying, isn't it? Don't worry, it comes back to bite him in the ass. It would have been excruciating, for sure.

Sara:

Yeah. But, again, it does make his character growth feel really, really rewarding, like, by the end of the book, I really appreciated seeing that change in him. Because he does learn and grow.

Lilly:

And, I mean, the kid goes through hell to get there. His otak dies. earned his character growth.

Sara:

He definitely earns his character growth, for sure. Like, no question about it.

Lilly:

Some other bad stuff happens, too, but nothing as bad as that.

Sara:

It's true.

Lilly:

So, because of the Otakdaz, we can never refer to this book as cozy. However, I really loved the relationships in this book. Ged has some really good friends and mentors, and all of the relationships between them are really, like, warm and supportive, and I was really enjoying that, I was really vibin and then when we get to the afterword, and Le Guin says, I was set out to write a book for teenagers, I was like, Oh! I get it. I see what you were doing now.

Sara:

Yeah, I mean, I think there's a lot of messaging in the book about how it's okay to make mistakes, and it's okay to be angry and prideful, and you just gotta acknowledge it and come to terms with it.

Lilly:

Don't double down.

Sara:

Yeah.

Lilly:

But, oh my gosh, Ogion. Ogion? Ogion

Sara:

I've always said it with a hard G, the same way I say Ged with a hard G, but I don't know how to pronounce any of these names. I mean, I'm making it up as I go along. It's all vibes.

Lilly:

feels better to

Sara:

Yeah,

Lilly:

His first mentor, who he leaves in a huff because he's not teaching him magic fast enough.

Sara:

I was so mad about that, but it ends up being okay.

Lilly:

Yeah, he comes back later when he's trying to deal with this shadow demon that he's unleashed upon the world, like a dumbass. And Ogion's like, Aw, kid. You sure did do that, didn't ya? Come here, buddy. And it's just really nice.

Sara:

Yeah, he's got some really supportive mentors, and even when he fucks up, like, cause he fucks up bad in Unleashing the Shadow Demon, like, His teachers at school are still pretty supportive. He legit kills the head wizard, the archmage, who is trying to clean up his mess. And the archmage who comes in afterwards has a moment of, Well, you done fucked up, so I'm not gonna acknowledge you immediately. But eventually, like, they do come to terms. So it was really, uh, I felt like a change of pace to see someone supported when they make kind of world shattering mistakes.

Lilly:

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And, I was really expecting, because Jasper is the first character we meet at wizard school, I was like, oh, Ged is gonna be the underdog outcast and everyone's gonna be mean to him. Psh, no. He meets Vetch, who is like, the best friend in the entire universe.

Sara:

That's just delightful.

Lilly:

He literally goes to hell with Ged.

Sara:

Yes, literally.

Lilly:

help him out of this problem he has gotten himself into. The literal ends of the earth. And Ged doesn't even ask him. He accidentally runs into him. This is much later in the book. They haven't seen each other in years. He accidentally runs into Vetch on his way to deal with this shadow demon. And he's like, Yeah, I'm gonna take a boat until I fall off the earth or whatever. I don't know. What else can I do? I've run out of things to try. And Vetch is like, I'll come with you. Ged never asks. Ged tries to talk him out of

Sara:

Ged does.

Lilly:

is like, No, no, I'm gonna come with you.

Sara:

And I like how Vetch tries to frame it in really practical terms, like, well, if you don't succeed, you'll need someone to basically tell everyone that you're evil now. And if you do succeed, you're not gonna brag about it, so you need someone to brag about it for you. But really, he's just, he just wants to go support his friend.

Lilly:

Yeah. Oh my god. So good. There are a couple of other good friends. Um, Petchvari, which is the ridiculous name. Petchvari.

Sara:

It is a name.

Lilly:

Peck. Nope, I don't know. Anyway. He's just a fisherman guy who lives in the woods. in the village where Ged is like, first assigned to go be a wizard at. They just like, build boats together. And hang out. It's great.

Sara:

I mean, things do turn a little weird when Ged can't save his kid, but.

Lilly:

But even that he doesn't really hold against him.

Sara:

I mean, to be fair, we don't see a lot of him after that.

Lilly:

No, he still, like, sees him off on his adventure and gives him supplies and stuff.

Sara:

I felt like some of that might just be peer pressure.

Lilly:

Maybe. And if anything is gonna break a friendship, failing to save a kid, one's child, I feel like, is pretty high up there.

Sara:

like, to be clear, I think that his feelings are understandable. I feel like he might have gotten over them had we spent longer with him. It's just that we leave basically, or Ged leaves basically immediately afterwards.

Lilly:

Yeah, fair enough. Well, I still enjoyed their friendship.

Sara:

They have a great friendship before then.

Lilly:

Yeah, so, like, all of those experiences of reading this book, and yeah, awful things happen, and yeah, Ged is kind of a twerp, at least for the first half. But, I don't know, just, every time it got to one of these points, when he goes back to Ogion, Like, half dead, having fucked up pretty hard. You're sitting there going, Oh, like, is Ogiang gonna be pissed that the student who, like, shunned his teachings went off and made a bunch of mistakes and now he has to clean up the mess? No. He's just a nice guy. He made for a very enjoyable reading experience.

Sara:

Yeah, there are so many little quiet moments of just people being nice to each other.

Lilly:

Yeah, and like, a lot of healthy masculinity,

Sara:

Mm hmm.

Lilly:

which I think is really nice

Sara:

I mean, Ged has some unhealthy masculinity too, but it's very clearly presented as unhealthy.

Lilly:

Yeah, the narrator straight up is like, Hey, that was a bad idea. Don't do it. Yeah, no, it was a, it was a really good book. I would be really excited to read the rest of the series. I don't know when I'll have time to do it, but this is one that I would actually want to, I think.

Sara:

Maybe we'll add the Tombs of Atuan, which I believe is the next book, to our podcast schedule for next year.

Lilly:

I would like

Sara:

I say next year because this year is

Lilly:

That's the soonest available slot.

Sara:

We have a couple of unscheduled slots this year, but it's basically calendared out already.

Lilly:

Thank you so much for listening to this episode of

Sara:

Come disagree with us! We're on Twitter, TikTok, at FictionFansPod. You can also email us at FictionFansPod at gmail. com.

Lilly:

If you enjoyed the episode, please rate and review on Spotify and Apple Podcasts and follow us wherever your live.

Sara:

We also have a Patreon, where you can support us and find exclusive episodes and a lot of other

Lilly:

again for listening, and may your villains always be

Sara:

Bye!